Salary sacrifice to be taxed

This is a fact - the money I have invested in stocks and shares ISAs has way out performed my husbands defined contribution pension. I manage my investments, not someone else. My aim is to be an ISA millionaire by retirement and take a tax free income, on top of other pensions and investments. I don’t earn a high wage, but I am a good investor.
The younger generation focuses too much on house prices for the retired generation, forgetting how hard it was in so many other ways. There is absolutely no way anyone working today would want the conditions of past generations. Yes they bought their houses for peanuts, but what a crappy life many had.
my Father had a very tough start in life, so is very resilient. Shame that same resilience is rare today.

Do you really think people will give up the remaining sizeable benefits because the benefits are very slightly smaller than they were before? It would be cutting off a nose to spite the face.

This is a fact - the money I have invested in stocks and shares ISAs has way out performed my husbands defined contribution pension. I manage my investments, not someone else. My aim is to be an ISA millionaire by retirement and take a tax free income, on top of other pensions and investments. I don’t earn a high wage, but I am a good investor.
The younger generation focuses too much on house prices for the retired generation, forgetting how hard it was in so many other ways. There is absolutely no way anyone working today would want the conditions of past generations. Yes they bought their houses for peanuts, but what a crappy life many had.
my Father had a very tough start in life, so is very resilient. Shame that same resilience is rare today.

So what they should do is start applying national insurance to the incomes of actual pensioners, who are the biggest users of welfare and healthcare by far (accounting for almost 50% of total public spending when they are only 15% of the population, and with a lifetime tax shortfall of £200k per pensioner in real terms between the benefits and services they have claimed and used and the tax they have paid in real terms). They are also, on average, the wealthiest cohort in society.

What they should not be doing is taking yet more from young people who haven’t a hope of achieving the same standards of living that these pensioners enjoy for having worked in similar occupations. It’s disgraceful.

This thread is a perfect example of the hate and bitterness towards public sectors pensions. You know, those who look after the sick and deliver your babies, who teach your children, who empty your bins and clean your streets, who answer your 999 calls , who put themselves in danger daily.

Most important of all - Our armed Forces and those who are being remembered right at this moment all over this country and the Commonwealth.

This is a fact - the money I have invested in stocks and shares ISAs has way out performed my husbands defined contribution pension. I manage my investments, not someone else. My aim is to be an ISA millionaire by retirement and take a tax free income, on top of other pensions and investments. I don’t earn a high wage, but I am a good investor.
The younger generation focuses too much on house prices for the retired generation, forgetting how hard it was in so many other ways. There is absolutely no way anyone working today would want the conditions of past generations. Yes they bought their houses for peanuts, but what a crappy life many had.
my Father had a very tough start in life, so is very resilient. Shame that same resilience is rare today.

Certainly I think DB schemes should be closed to new entrants, in fact I would go so far as to say that people currently in the workforce should be switched to DC going forward for all their future earning years.

(For avoidance of doubt, I mean that public sector employers would contribute to DC pensions the same as private sector employers - not that public sector employees would simply no longer get a pension.)

It is an utterly unsustainable scheme to pay public sector workers today by borrowing from tomorrow (i.e. convince them to take a lower wage now because the pension is good). If we cannot afford services now then we should cut them back, not burden later generations.

So do you think public sector pension schemes should be scrapped? Closed to new entrants from a certain date? The government is going to have to fund those who are receiving payouts as the schemes are unfunded.

The benefit is often that employers will make higher/ matched contributions above the legal minimum if the employee makes higher voluntary contributions. This is not available when saving into an ISA. This is something that should be encouraged and the Government’s proposed policy means that the majority of employers are stating that they will cut any additional voluntary contributions in future or cut salaries further if they implement this policy.

Why should public sector workers have other taxpayers fund employer NI relief on their pension contributions, raising the employer contribution levels by 15% over what would otherwise be affordable, and private sector employees have to fund this but have their own employers prohibited from doing so even on much lower contributions?

Your father’s particular circumstances do not refute economic data across the entire population/ cohort.

Do you really think people will give up the remaining sizeable benefits because the benefits are very slightly smaller than they were before? It would be cutting off a nose to spite the face.

Consider the bigger picture … a salary sacrifice scheme is just one of the current schemes available to encourage people to proactively save more for their own retirement (& potentially make them less reliable on state support).

Take it away and less people save.
Less people help themselves to be self sufficient.
More reliance on the future state.

No they haven’t: the vast majority of the public sector still have defined benefit schemes, many of them unfunded.

I think you may be confusing defined benefit schemes with final salary schemes. Both “final salary” and “career average” (or similar) are types of defined benefit schemes.

Thank God for the posters on this thread who actually know what salary sacrifice means!

I have seen loads of comments on MN posts where posters use SS to reduce on paper what their salary is, to be able to stay in a lower tax band. Particularly at the higher end with cliff edge tax differences. Smoothing out these cliff edges would be a good thing in my view. As would getting rid of NI altogether and just roll into an income tax, that covers all forms of income.

Some of the ageist, anti pensioner, anger and comments on here are appalling.

Piranhas?
WTAF!
My DM was a nurse who worked for 40 years, nights, days, weekends, Christmas.
The average nurses pension is £11400 per year
If you think that women like her shouldn't get a reasonable pension you are a psychopath .

My “issue” is that I’ve spent my career working in economics and I’m sick of all the nonsense posted about this when the facts and data speak for themselves. My “issue” is that I don’t think that the current working aged population and their children and grandchildren should have to live on “crumbs” just to placate the most entitled, selfish and self-righteous generation in history. Doing so to date has done an immense amount of harm to the UK economy and living standards already and it needs to change, urgently, for there to be any hope for the future.

There are, of course, some decent people in that cohort and of course those people would absolutely agree that these generational inequalities need to be addressed and that pensioners will need to accept that significant changes need to be made that - for once - are not for their own benefit.

This is the fundamental issue above all others that is wrecking the UK economy. The vast majority of other economic “issues” raised on this and other similar threads recently are insignificant nonsense in comparison and just people’s personal gripes that would make no substantive difference to UK prosperity or living standards either way. Perhaps it’s just innumeracy in a large part of the population. Regardless, facts remain facts and at some point the UK population will have to cease to ignore the large-bottomed, large-eared grey animal currently drowning those below retirement age with the water it is squirting from its trunk. 🐘

Many in public services do not have pensions equivalent or more than the average worker.

Yes, they do. Economic data shows unequivocally that they do when you look at net disposable income (don’t forget that they are not paying NI. As well as most having no housing cost).

They have worked and paid in for 40 plus years and you think they are going to take it lying down
Political suicide!

Of course they won’t “take it lying down”. These piranhas have held the country to ransom for decades which is why there has been no money for productive investment in infrastructure, education, industrial policy etc. that would actually raise productivity and, therefore, living standards. They do not care. They are quite happy to be the first generation in history that left their children and grandchildren worse off than they are.

This attitude exemplifies what I’m talking about and is precisely why the country is in the state it’s in.

Meanwhile they want to blame disabled children/ immigrants/ avocado on toast/ <insert scapegoat of the week>/ (most ironically) “welfare recipients” when they themselves are the largest welfare recipients by far and the only group in society of whom a large proportion receive state welfare of which they have absolutely no need.

How they continue to do so with a straight face I don’t know. I suppose either they must be absolutely shameless gaslighters who care about nobody but themselves, or they are so economically illiterate that they genuinely don’t understand how ridiculous these stupid comments make them look and that nobody with half a brain is buying the sob stories.

Crumbs I think you have issues @222days thats quite some hatred you are showing

Surely you will still be able to pay extra into your pension? You simply won't be able to do it as a means of avoiding tax? 🤷

Good grief, there are more intelligent pot plants than some on this thread.

Funny how nobody is complaining that Student Loan payments aren’t reduced by paying into a pension.
My DD has to pay 11% of her Teacher’s salary into her Pension, she still has to pay Student loan without that taken into consideration.

Those who are able to Sal Sac have their Student loan payments reduced.

Excuse me while I locate my tiny violin for those who might have to pay a little but more NI because they choose to artificially lower their income.

Which is why it is better for care home to be funded by the residents capital not current tax payers.