To have expected her to take the kid out when this happened?

I had a friend when my eldest was three or four whose toddler soiled his nappy and I recall asking several times if she needed wet wipes but she insisted on washing him in my laundry sink without wiping him first. She came out and said a little chunk of poo fell into the sink so she pushed it down the plug. 🤮 I was gobsmacked. Needless to say I disinfected the entire area as soon as she left. People do weird stuff.

No, I'm saying people are very pleased with themselves that they potty trained at 2, and claiming this mother is lazy when actually 2 is pretty old to be in nappies as well. So you're also also lazy, but feel superior because the lazy western world keeps babies in nappies until 2 years old - it's all down to convenience, nothing more.

Also, shit in the street? You're showing your ignorance. That's appalling.

Mixed feelings on this. Both my children toilet trained late (3yo), but I’m pretty sure that I’d have attempted to take the child to the toilet if I could see that they were pooing. For their sake and everyone else’s. To me, now, it seems pretty disgusting to just knowingly leave your 4yo child pooing.

However I don’t know the child’s history so I don’t really like to judge. I also think that, as others have said. Parents of young children become a bit immune to the grossness of it all.

Is have been quite happy with that and probably praised the independent little fellow immensely!

@No5ChalksRoad i was in the kitchen making coffee when it happened, friend was with the children in the living room.The potty is tucked away quite discreetly so friend didn’t notice it was the potty before it happened- plus she was busy with our four year olds who were playing with her and the little one was getting on with things himself!

I don't have any experience here, can anyone enlighten me?

Does a child who withholds still know that they have an impending need for a poo? Of course they shouldn't be made to keep it in, but can they be taught to excuse themselves to a more private place than someone's lounge?

You must have noticed the child unfastening his clothing before he started shitting. Why didn’t you remove him to the toilet?

If that happened to me I would have left, tbh.

Pretty grim and parent seems clueless.

Something similar happened to me but at my house the other week. I had left the potty for my newly potty trained child next to the sofa for easy reach, my child then proceeded to poo in the potty next to my friend. The whole room stunk, I was mortified as I’m sure OPs friend was. The only blessing was it was warmish so I could open the patio doors.

People love to say ‘assuming no SEN’ on these types of posts. You are aware that SEN diagnoses aren’t all done and dusted at the age of 4? This is the sort of behaviour that can help build a picture for an assessment later on in a child where there are no more obvious accompanying learning difficulties, but in the meantime there is often a parent driving themselves to distraction that despite their best efforts, their child is just not getting something that is straightforward for so many others. Not saying that this is what’s going on here but it is a massive oversimplification to just trot this out.

There have always been children with SEN or medical issues (and I’d argue that those needs are far better recognised now than back in the 1970s, which kind of blows your argument out of the water.)

But you’re ignoring the fact that schools report a huge increase among reception children who have no SEN/ medical conditions who just haven’t been toilet trained. They haven’t had their needs met adequately by their parents.

@crossedlines and yet the continence service won't see a child until 7. My NT GD wasn't under Alderhey until that age, when it turned out she needed two small (but under ketamine sedation) procedures. Withholding is a nightmare and softly softly is needed.

It doesn't have to be SEN, my GC withheld. It meant longer in nappies and we couldn't interrupt her, otherwise she'd withhold, then it would be constipation overflow all day. Some children aren't easy when it comes to their bowels. There were the issues about when I was at school in the 70's (before it's said there wasn't) but there wasn't pressure for children to attend school. I can remember number 2 accidents from other children in class and their mum's talking about overnight accidents. Those were the days when there were toilets everywhere and kids could go in alleyways and squat over grids, without judgement.

Well said!

Exactly. There is something really strange and off about the entire scenario.

I have read this story before on MN. I think it had a 7 year old in it that time though.

The age is a red herring? So you don’t believe there are developmental differences between a 2 and a 4 year old? Good grief.

The developmental differences of NT children at those ages are absolutely huge. There’s the language difference (the average NT 4 year old will have vastly more advanced receptive and expressive language,) greater physical control, and - really importantly - a far more advanced sense of self and of what’s acceptable in different contexts. A parent who ignores those factors is being neglectful and not treating their child with respect.

A one year old shitting in their nappy in someone’s lounge won’t have the language to say what they’re doing and may not even show any physical response.

A two year old is already more likely to want some privacy - hiding behind sofa etc.

A 4 year old still in a nappy who is taken out for lunch and very obviously squats, grunts and takes a shit with the parent just periodically asking ‘have you finished?’ is just grim on every level. It’s totally demeaning for the child.

it sounds like some people just don’t believe that this happens for a minority of NT children. They don’t believe what schools are saying - that it’s become increasingly common for reception class children to not be toilet trained. The OP’s situation sounds exactly like that - the only difference being that the kid isn’t yet in school because of when their 4th birthday fell. I don’t get why a minority of posters are minimising this, as if a child’s dignity and right to have their developmental needs met just doesn’t matter.

My kid was 3.5 before they cracked potty training, it wasn't lazy parenting. We'd be working on in since 2, and I must of cleaned up 1000x more accidents then the smug parent who trained in a weekend. In the end DS got it when he got it, if it had taken 6 months linger, there's nothing different I could have done, so would have been in the same position as your friend.

Realistically you can't stay home for years, so if it's takeing longer then usual they sometimes go back into nappies when out, otherwise people like the op would have a lot more to complain about. To an outside observer, it looks like they aren't/haven't been trained, no matter how much work is actually been done behind the scenes. Mine did turn out to have SEN, but at 4 I was only just realising this, so most friends wouldn't have been aware.

Not pleasant. You probably need to shampoo your carpet if you can still smell it. It must have leaked.

I'd worry that if mum is showing such poor judgement as to let a 4 year old crap in the living room then what other poor judgement is going on there. I'd also be concerned about the lack of inhibition in a child of that age, it's not necessarily abnormal but the adults should be guiding them into an understanding of what's appropriate at that age.

Well societal norms are important. We need to be bringing up our children to follow them.

if she had killed the dog and started chowing down would you have written a post about some cultures eat dogs and therefore being appalled by it was “short sighted”

following cultural norms in a society is importance-removing the expectation that a child follows these norms is a major part of the decline in our society.

so if someone if some other time or place lets their kid shit in the street I don’t care..That’s not the expectation here. The expectation here is a 4 year old should be toilet trained and not pooing in someone’s living room.

How on earth is a non Sen 4 year old not potty trained in the day. Wouldn’t judge at night as that is hormone based but day time potty training is parent based! We need to be expecting better of parents and being judgemental of piss poor parenting

Four????? 😳

that’s fucking lazy parenting, yes I’m judging. they should at least teach her some dignity if they can’t be bothered to train her.

Your example of societies not using nappies isn't helpful.

Which society in the world has the latest age of tolerating a child unable to control their bowels sufficiently to move to a toileting area for a crap?

The age is NOT a red herring. A 2 year old is much less capable of controlling their bodily functions than a 4 year old. A 2 year old is not producing the volume of shit that a 4 year old is. A 4 year old has had at least a year past the normal age to be potty trained to lean the skill.

To be honest I'd be starting to question why the mother wants her daughter to remain infantalised.

The most astonishing thing about this thread for me is that 38% of people so far in the poll think this it's reasonable for a non-SEN 4 year old to crap in someone's else's lounge!

Four year olds shouldn’t be in nappies
she should have whipped out a potty or taken her to the toilet