AIBU to think my 3-year-old isn’t being “mean” and that family should stop taking it personally?

I couldn’t agree with this more. His behaviour is completely unacceptable and by enabling it it’s encouraging a child to think they’re the centre of the world and no-one else matters.

No - he’s being rude and you’re his parent so you need to kindly correct his behaviour.

this is of course upsetting to MIL and husband. Wether it’s personal or not. You can’t just let your child be rude and hurt people’s feelings. That’s what being a parent is. Obviously be there for DS too and make him feel understood and valued, but don’t just shrug off his behaviour as ok.

Thank goodness some parents with a common sense attitude. You can't expect a child to get away with bad behaviour at a young age because you make excuses for them then suddenly expect better when they are older. Absolutely agree kind hands can be misinterpreted by a child. No hands no hitting is easy to understand.

Exactly. This reminds me of when I was out with a friend who has a lovely, sweet natured 10 year old boy, she’s of a non white background where parenting is very ‘no nonsense.’ We were at a park and three little girls much younger than him started teasing and play fighting but in a very irritating and quite full on way. My friend called out to ask them to stop hitting twice. One parent eventually surfaced, with their ‘gentle hands’ crap and my friend shouted out ‘no hands.’ The darling parents didn’t know where to look, don’t think they were ever challenged or called out before.

Above post was responding to @JillMW

Thank you for sending me this article from an armchair psychologist, I actually now work in the child psychology sector but you wouldn’t want my evidence based advice would you, only parenting advice from social media will do for people like yourself.

And yes, after nannying in the UK for 5 years and in a different country prior to that you become rather fed up and judgemental of middle class parenting in the UK. I couldn’t believe when I moved here and witnessed a 7 year old repeatedly push his grandmother because she wouldn’t carry his bag (not my mindee thank god), one of my ex mindees hit me while the dad watched on, he did nothing but a half arsed, ‘that’s not nice,’ Then towards the end of my nanny career, I worked for non British families and the children were polite, disciplined, well mannered. It does make you wonder.

Absolutely! Children should not be taught manners by any relative and 3 year olds should definitely be the ones in charge of any seating plan...

I don’t think OP means he’s physically pushing her…. But ‘pushing her away with his words’….
however if a 3 year old physically pushing someone away, maybe we need to respect the child’s want not to be touched by that person? You have to very close to a 3 year old to be touched by them…
studies show that most of us want people to be a meter away from us.. ‘an arms length’ for us adults! Children haven’t yet learnt how to express why they feel uncomfortable with people being too close… so a ‘go away’ or a shove is all they know…it’s our job to show them how to express this boundary with nice words… without telling them that not wanting this person in their space is wrong!

so for example in OP’s situation teaching son to say ‘I’d like daddy to sit next to me’… or ‘that’s Daddy’s chair… ‘
but it’s also important adults are responsive and don’t dismiss kids boundary by saying ‘oh don’t be silly I’m sitting there today!’
mits so hard at 3 to express feelings… they don’t even know what the feeling is themselves… they’re just aware they don’t like it..

This might be a controversial opinion on mumsnet…. BUT here goes anyway..

I think @3hairspastfreckle you need to keep some structure on future visits from MIL & Auntie…. Not sending him to nursery all week when he’s used to going in full time is a huge change, so maybe on future visits still send him in for either half days or for either 2 or 3 days of the week (so Monday, Wednesday & Friday OR Tuesday & Thursday… just to keep some normality for him?!

now here’s the controversial part - I actually think children need to be allowed to say no, so if he’s kicking off about Nan sitting next to him…. Ask yourself why!…. If it’s because mum and dad usually sit beside him then stick to that routine if he prefers it, sit nan opposite instead…. If it’s because when she sits next to him she nags about how he eats? What he eats, how he holds cutlery or whatever then she needs pulling up and told not to nag him, it isn’t her place to do so…. Does she keep touching him/kissing him? If he doesn’t like it then ask her to stop … I think it’s crucial that our children know that NO means NO and that’s a two way street….. too many parents expect their kids to except no as an answer but don’t respect their child’s boundaries in return… I remember being forced to kiss old ladies in my family when I was little and walking away wiping drippy nose or dribble off my cheek as I walked away….. it was vile! Trying to enforce this boundary with my daughter has been tough because my mother has always expected my DD to kiss my nan, and even resorts to blackmail… give nan a kiss and I might have a little surprise for you…. Or if you don’t kiss Nanny I’ll take back your birthday presents/Santa won’t come/Easter bunny won’t come etc…. It’s horrible and it took bloody years of explaining to people that I wasn’t forcing my child to kiss/be kissed by anyone she didn’t want to kiss/be kissed by!!
Obviously don’t allow complete rudeness, so he can’t tell nan she isn’t allowed to sit down at all… BUT if he’s just saying he doesn’t want her sat next to him then I’d respect that… I choose who I sit next to when I sit up to eat.. why shouldn’t he?!
it’s not about letting him control meal times, it’s about respecting his personal space!

remember its SOOOO Important that we teach our children that no means no… that their bodies are theirs and they’re allowed their personal space and should also respect other peoples! We can’t just tell our children this… we have to SHOW them by respecting their boundaries!

Hmmm. My friend's son was like this at this age or a bit younger. Mine weren't 🤷‍♀️ a young child shouldn't be shoving or pushing an elderly relative. You need to be very firm with this behaviour. Remove him from situation if necessary.

I assume you are not planning more children, I don't think your little prince would like a baby who would get attention and cause disruption.

I would have been absolutely mortified if my child ever behaved like that towards their grandparents, or anyone, even as a toddler. You should be intervening and telling him that’s not how we speak to people.

When we go visit our daughter SIL and young Grandson we stay in a B&B close by, that way his bedtime routine and early morning are kept as close to normal as possible meaning he has time to decompress from the excitement (which can be very tiring for any child)

Nonsense! His house feels wrong because someone is staying in it who is disrupting his routine and probably making demands on him to be affectionate etc all the time. It's forcing a 3 yr old to be a performing monkey. Mind you is sooner cut off a limb than have my mil to stay for week as she has this impact on my kids. Constant overblown attention freaks my eldest especially right out.
.on the other hand my sister comes to stay quite a bit and the kids adore it and adore her, she doesn't make demands on then, the house carries on as normal and they just have an extra adult they can go to as and when they wish.

My mil buys constant stream of unnecessary presents too while my sister doesn't and you'd think that would make mil the more welcome guest.

Even then a week would be too long

Now do I think they know that what they are saying is unkind ….. yes. Do I think they understand the gravity it what they are saying and the consequences of their words on others no, they are 3. However this is where your role of a parent come in. I’m all for taking the time to understand your little one’s feelings but you also need to acknowledge that their words and behaviour are unkind and rude and that does need dealing with at an age appropriate level. My 3 year old will say things like this to me, their older siblings, their dad etc often cos she’s trying to be funny, but she is told that it’s unkind, hurtful and trying to get them to understand actions/words said has consequences that’s our role to teach them to learn. Next breath, they’ll want their older siblings to play with them or get them a drink, and I tell them no because their feelings were hurt and theyvfontvwantvto play etc. it’s reasonable that at 3 they have big feelings and they are expressing them but also it’s understandable that their words have hurt others and they have big feelings too. I honestly feel that you are doing your child an injustice by making excuses and almost letting them ‘get away’ with it, it does need gripping it’s a life lesson that needs to be learnt.

Another example of a child feelings and demands being the no one priority. When he grows up the first time he isnt no1 and pandered to expect a meltdown. Why is a 3 year old allowed to decide how long someone can stay and be rude. What if he has a sibling? What if your circumstances change and you had to live with your parents. It is your job to allow him to manage his feelings and teach him that being rude isnt the way to go.

I actually understand exactly what @AleaEim means, and see it regularly. Middle class parents who allow their kids to run riot in cafes, restaurants, etc, behaving terribly with only the occasional interjection about "gentle hands", or "big feelings", or "bad choices" whilst they're making everyone around them miserable! For the love of god, put your skinny oat milk turmeric latte down and tell them "No!"! Being rude and obnoxious is not OK, and there has to be a point where the "gentle parenting" has to be less about the "gentle" and more about the "parenting".

You seem extremely angry and judgemental about families. I wonder if perhaps you were not using time out appropriately and that was maybe why you were asked not to use it? I have no idea where these leftie middle class areas with feral children are but that is not what I see. I see beautiful families with lovely children who sometimes behave in a way that is unexpected. Mothers like the poster who are trying to unpick the behaviour and improve the situation should be praised not criticised. I do think child care has changed over the last 10 years, often for the better.
This article might help you understand why some professionals don’t like time out but others think that it can ( depending how it is used) be a useful tool.
https://themompsychologist.com/2022/03/02/do-time-outs-work-or-are-they-harmful-disciplining-your-toddler-or-preschooler-using-time-outs/

Your MIL and your DH are idiots for taking things personally. The kid is 3. This is normal behaviour.

This^

Your latest update makes absolute sense now of the don’t sit there comment. She was sitting in dad’s chair.

He is testing boundaries and the extent of his own power. He definitely knows telling people they can't sit down or that he doesn't like them is rude and unacceptable- so why are you accepting this.
Children at this age have to start understanding they are not the centre of the universe and the only individual that has needs- you are enabling him and he is becoming rude and spiteful- because you are letting him know he can get away with it. heavens alone knows what he would be like if you had the temerity to have another baby.

This. I remember my mum falling out with my brother & sister in law over little nieces behaviour at a prolonged stay. It eas exactly the same, they just ran out of steam after a few days. They were not 'evil' as described by my ma! No doubt they knew that they were being unkind.
This was over 35 years ago & was resolved quite quickly. Children need routine & the most enthusiastic granny needs to remember that.
You ought to explain to the child that he has been rude to granny & granny (unless she has been stunningly lucky) needs to remember that children can be ghastly sometimes

Oh yeah, this has been going on a while now. If you go to the really leftie middle class neighborhoods you’ll notice the kids are feral. This is why. I wasn’t allowed to give time outs as a nanny or use the word no, this was ten years ago, it’s worse now I’d imagine!

i don’t think a 3 year olds brain is developed enough to recognise how his words and actions affect others. Especially if they are tired and hungry. Some 3 year olds can barely string a sentence together. Some 3 year olds never stop talking!