Out of control kids

I’m struggling to understand how this is meeting needs? It sounds like placation and also teaching a habit of getting up and walking around. How is this working out at school?

Surely a calm, quiet ten minutes sitting eating dinner is much less ‘sensory overload’ than getting up, scraping the chair, accidentally dropping knives and forks, walking around constantly, sitting back down, picking up fork again, listening to endless messages from mum with the tv blaring in the background…..?

Can you recommend any books?

Contact your local council and ask them about parenting classes they can refer you to.

Is there another adult around at some point in the evening? so one is out for a late walk other is errrrr late walk in other direction (sorry it's dark in the evenings now otherwise I'd have said bike run, park )
Someone told me the fighting gives them a dopamine hit - so that is why it happens all the time.
Also heard that getting DCs diagnosed early speeds up support etc , diagnosis takes longer after 6
Probably allow tv during meals to get them to sit at the table.

For a non neurotypical child asking them to sit and eat it actually a really had task and after attending a study day on AFRID which discussed children with ASD and ADHD as part of it (attended due to my ow ASD child) I have realised the pressure and sensory overload this expectation gave was too much. I now allow the tv on and it he walks around and then eats it’s fine it’s what he needs but I will promote and advise such as you are not eating so need to keep going or the tv will have to go off. Redirect and refocus is the key to success will a lot of non neurotypical children.
for me educating myself on his brain and processing helped me parent and put in achievable boundaries as well as helped me understand his processing

When the adult is in charge, and the rules are clear, a small amount of competition is good. Obvs unfettered competition is bad. But if you’re trying to avoid all ill feeling and uncomfortableness, then that is even worse - what happens when they are men and they get their GCSE results, or when they see their colleagues get a pay rise for meeting a sales target? Are future employers supposed to create an ‘everyone’s a winner’ situation just because Timmy’s grown up in a household where his feelings come first?

I disagree with previous posters idea to create competition between them. With the ADHD that's not a good idea. Yes high drive but high rejection sensitivity will lead to ill feeling. You're trying to lower the conflict in the house. Set them different tasks.

Cut out screens. They are temporary respite and generally make the behaviour worse around them. 3 weeks for behavioural change so whatever you do you need to do for that long. Get outdoors, puddlesuits on and go puddlejumping.

Set out visable routines for them- for the morning and after school. Basic and easy , mine do get home, shoes/ bag/coat away, get changed and wash hands. Instant reward, sets everything up with a good tone.

We have ADHD in this house and it's hard, consistency is key and lots of praise. Also get robot hoover- kids quickly tidy up when there's a machine trying to eat their stuff.

Oh and by the way, feel free to ask questions.

Also, the more on the spectrum boys are, the more they thrive on rules, routines, fairness. Don’t fall for the floppy nonsense otherwise they’ll maladapt even more and you’ll end up with antisocial gaming addicts who punch holes in the wall and refuse to go to school. Trust me, I’ve got enough experience over the years hearing the patterns unfold for fellow parents.

Make a plan. You can do this.

The behaviours you describe are normal for boys who need a leader, not a best friend and unfettered freedom. They don’t care about the points system you created because ultimately they see you have no status. They are currently vying for attention, learning that he who is most vile gets to dominate. You need to turn the tables and be in charge. Ideally, their father needs to step in - there’s something about a man’s voice that makes boys pay attention.

Rules, routines and competition work really well for boys. It means that instead of saying ‘don’t do x’, your language changes to ‘well done for x’.

Examples:
’let’s see who’s the best boy at sitting at the table nicely’
’let’s see who’s the quickest to put the toys in the toy chest’

Teach them them lots and lots of routines, such as how to lay the table, how to take the dishes to the dishwasher, how to make a bed, how to pair socks. Make the routines up - what we looking for is responsibility and success rather than actual usefulness ‘right, now it’s time to sort x’. All of these things followed by praise. Make a rotation of ‘who’s in charge’ of these chores - it’ll make them feel important (young men ultimately crave this status). Don’t do that silly thing of having a collaborative ideas session followed by democratic vote.

On the specific issues you cite
’no, it’s against the rules to watch tv while eating’
’it’s time for bed…well done the other brother for being a good boy….he gets a scary story where he is the hero tonight [created by chatgpt that I read to him]’
’it’s against the rules to poke your brother’

You need to be crystal clear, firm, and show them exactly where the line is. This requires a deep breath and an investment of energy. I know you’re tired, but unless you do this, things will get worse. The amount of testosterone in their bodies will keep going up.

Yours,

An experienced mother of 4 decent, kind young men who used to be little herberts.

I think they are at hard ages. I remember at one point my kids literally couldn’t be in the same room as each other without there being some sort of issue/fighting/sniping. It’s so draining.

keeping them apart as much as possible worked for us. Even if in the same room. They weren’t allowed to sit on the same sofa, next to each other at a table etc. Giving one child a job to do, and the other another job. Focusing one child on one thing, the other on another.

basically keeping them away from each other! Mine are 10 and 12 now and are….slightly better. I decided when they were quite young to not sweat the small stuff and stop getting so involved with them and their ‘politics’. Let them figure it out themselves a bit.

good luck!

I’m just going to make a list of things that work for us but they may not be suitable for you -
lots of outside time in all weathers , park after school , trampoline in the garden to bounce of the energy , time in some woods so they can be completely feral!
zero youtube - this has made the biggest difference in behaviour
Set up activity’s for each child separately after school so they have seperate unwind time .
just add water - bath / shower / play in the rain , it always seems diffuse my son when a mood hits him

I can relate. I have ADHD and my boys are showing signs of having it too. Home life is very stressful. The only thing that helps is separating them up and trying to be outside as much as possible.
I’m following with interest for tips.