Out of control kids

From what I've learned (so may not be universal):
Boys respond better to instructions when touched first (otherwise they don't know you are talking to them). Sounds daft, but works on grown men who don't pay attention too

Adhd and taking in verbal instructions is often hard so find another way to convey what you need them to do

Use positives, rather than negatives. Not in a 'everything should be positive' way, but that humans are not so good at recognising 'no' and 'don't'. So instead of 'don't do X' try 'do Y'. It's hard to remember though. Trying to think of an example. Something like instead of 'don't hit your brother' try 'be kind to your brother, hitting isn't kind'

Don't pit them against each other, you want them to be a team, not rivals

Reward charts don't work with adhders, save yourself the bother. See also punishments

Fidget toys. Everywhere. Allow at the dinner table. Also at the table, engage in engaging conversation or word games so brains and mouths are busy

Number one is to stick to the rules you have decided upon even if it’s tough, kids respond best to consistent boundaries.

as far as meal times I’m of the opinion that everyone sits at the table together and eats, no tv? Nobody gets down until everyone has finished. It’s a time to talk about their day, talk about what’s happening more generally and talk about things coming up. I’ve done this since mine were capable of being in a high chair (six months) and both are nd (one add, one adhd) it’s non negotiable and they to this day follow my rules as adults when here.

Separating siblings where number 2 pesters number 1 is challenging, been there, but I found that I could set the eldest doing something they enjoyed then concentrate on the younger, even though I really should be doing something else, having craft stuff for instance was good when I was cooking. Having a second space eg dining table does help here.

rewards do work for most, we had the advantage of them loving books (well certainly buying them) so stars meant money towards a book, we went on Saturday if enough stars were earned (I think number 2 mostly wanted the inevitable coffee shop trip but if it works it works).

Good luck, it does pass

Haven't rtft yet but can I recommend a book/ method that is amazing. 123 Magic. Can't remember the author. It IS magic. I did a parenting course for kids with behaviour issues and this was like the bible to them. I've heard it a few times here too. It's the most practical no nonsense approach I've ever come across and one of the only things that worked for me.

Glad to hear it's going better. For bedtime I used to find it hard to have anything that would be so immediate it would have an impact and I now have two things 1) they have a fixed amount of stories and they lose one (or can get an extra one sometimes) and 2) I leave the room. Don't know why leaving the room works, but I did it a few times when I was stressed and it calmed them down. So now I say 'if you keep behaving like that mummy will leave the room for 5 minutes' and it often calms them down, if not the 5 minutes for us both to cool off is quite helpful

Good luck with it all

Read calmer, easier, happier boys. It's a down to earth book with simple and practical ways to engage boys. Exercise and descriptive praise (you are sitting sensibly, you listened attentively etc) are two of the practical ways the author shows boys engage much better.

Ironically, the boys might’ve been overtired. My midwife, many many years ago, had a theory that around half of adhd cases were due to lack of sleep because tiredness in children presents differently to adults.

You’re right to take it a step at a time.

OP you have some good advice here from @OwnGravityField and others.

DS is very spirited with SEN and found mealtimes difficult to sit still but I never allowed tv or screens at dinner. Or walking around when eating! My rule is that once you get down from the table you are saying you are finished eating.
How will they ever learn to eat in a restaurant or at a friend’s house?
Also who is in charge here? If a small child can demand tv to eat dinner, or walk around holding food, then you are storing up trouble for the future when they are a big teenager and you have no authority….

You can make mealtimes more engaging by doing chats as suggested upthread (would you rather etc) or go round the table and tell an interesting fact, doesn’t matter how silly it is.

Or get one of the DCs to ‘help’ make or serve dinner (not the whole meal, just an element of it, even if it’s just adding a couple of ingredients and stirring the pot) and then give loads of praise. Or pizzas you let them add their choice of toppings.

I am also a fan of not putting all the food on their plates but getting them used to serving themselves with a selection of veg to pick from. So the meal itself becomes an activity. And can be a talking point especially if it’s something like fajitas where you they can choose to add different things to it or noodles you can add different toppings.

Consequences - for deliberately disobedient behaviour like the screaming, remove from the situation put them in their room and ignore them. Children hate being ignored especially if others are having fun.

Removal of privileges like screen time or choice of tv programme or choice of which park to go to. But keep consequences realistic, short time frame, and stick to them eg not ‘no Christmas presents’

Rewards eg a marble jar or star chart but it needs to be a short time frame, not months long.

Children are much happier when they have a structure, and when the grown-ups are in charge.

Definitely stop the TV during meals.

OP, you asked about consequences/rewards, personally I found that rewards work best than punishments (ie the punishment is ‘no reward’). A few examples on top of my head:

Rewards: choice of music during meals, choice of story to be read, pants dance party (being allowed to strip down to pants and dance like a crazy person to the tune of your choice), bubbles/bath bomb in the bath, a straw to drink their water, can choose which snack they take to school (from a selection), etc

Punishments: fill up a bag of dead leaves from the garden, have to break up an Amazon box into small pieces, make everybody’s bed, have to help with laundry (carry clothes from the basket to the machine and being bored while I do the rest), dusting: have to bring back two dusting wipes full of dust (criteria for punishment: no need to supervise, clear expectation of result, they can’t create mess while doing it)

Processing issues or not, your boys have brains with infinite learning capacity. If they can learn all the pokemons off by heart, they can learn rules and routines, learn how to sit etc.

I’m actually excited for you, a new era of calm and consistency will dawn. Other parents will envy you!

Screen bans are great. So many parents let their children use ipads for ‘regulation’ or whatever, to ‘help them go to sleep’. I mean, what? I REALLY recommend a rule of ‘if you can’t sleep, read a book’. My children quickly became fluent readers and also had plenty of sleep because bedtimes were 7pm lol.

Oh and by the way, I was on my own a lot as husband worked loads. You can absolutely turn things around, if anything because you get to be the one ensuring consistency. Your boys are at the PERFECT age for teaching rules and routines. You will, however need your husband to step in with a mighty correction if/when your boys get to about 15 or 16 and start being gobby with you.

When I say little competitions, it’s more the form of words I use in the moment. ‘Let’s see who can make the bed the quickest’. Used sparingly, it adds some fun. ‘Right. Who can get their bag, coat and shoes on for school and be ready at the front door before mummy gets her handbag.’ It’s never affected their relationship. I’ve mainly encouraged them to be the best they can be. Brothers do naturally compete with each other. The key is to set the terms of healthy competition. I will admit, there was some bantz about who got what in their GCSEs that I had to moderate.

When it comes to dealing with dinner time wind ups, I guess I’m fortunate that I have the kind of presence and tone where ‘no’ delivered firmly, fairly, with The Stare causes immediate ceasing of said behaviour. The main thing about follow up is that it’s consistent, short, sharp. You do need to follow through on your promises. If you’d said ‘no poking otherwise no pudding’, stick to it. Don’t make vague threats like ‘no visit from santa this year’ because they’ll think you’re a joke.

The other thing I would suggest that prevents dinner table squabbling in the first place is modelling and participation of dinner table conversation. ‘Would you rather’ is quite a fun one. ‘Would you rather be an enormous elephant or a tiny mouse’. ‘Would you rather eat only dinner or pudding for the rest of your life’. ‘Which superpower would you have’ ‘would you rather live in a hot country or a cold country’.

The art of polite dinner table conversation has died out, but I think it’s one of the most powerful ways parents can teach their children to focus, listen, broaden their thinking and disagree without things getting hysterical. You tend to find children at the table then become a bit of a captive market for the occassional lecture ‘no you’re not becoming a youtuber’. If parents are together, children learn a lot from hearing their parents plan their future, think about each other with kindness, support each other at worrying times (without saying too much that would cause children to worry). This offsets the terrible models of relationships children might see on TV.

If you are planning to upgrade the dinner table situation, I’d advise against the mode of allowing children to ‘hold court’. An example is mummy and daddy talking about something interesting and important, but they allow Timmy to butt in with an inane question or statement and then follow it up with ‘oh how wonderful Timmy that you found a green bogey’. The habit of butting in and expecting a positive reply I suspect frustrates the hell out of teachers. Also, and while I’m on the topic, let them eat a few spoonfuls first before engaging in convo because intense hunger will limit conversational brainpower.

With your husband’s PTSD, the son’s behaviour towards him is inadvertently abusive. I would suggest you have a joint plan of attack and be a united front on that. The moment that nonsense starts, a firm utterance of ‘no screaming’, boy gets lifted up and put in another room. Don’t start shouting back at the boy though. Literally do not give the boy a chance to escalate or make his excuses though. Alongside this strategy, have a joint plan of fostering ‘positive moments with daddy’. I suspect if your husband is knackered from work he won’t want to do storytime, but if you can nail a more positive, strict routine on bedtime that ends with a superhero story that your boys look forward to then you can create the space for him to step in willingly (because your husband is also a boy who craves respect and adoration - what more could he get from a son that loves storytime with him).

I separate my boys as much as possible (same age difference as yours, DS1 asd). If DS1 is in a mood I make them eat seperately so each can eat peacefully. Not ideal but you have to do what works for you and the kids.

Not sure if you have a garden? I'd suggest a trampoline

He doesn't need a TV to eat

Tell him it's broken and secretly unplug it

Honestly op, who's in charge here?

All I can suggest is as much physical activity as possible.

As soon as it's remotely fine, get outdoors. Picnic where possible.

Keep meal times short.

Do not accept screaming/hitting etc. Instant consequences, in room for five mins. Then ten mins etc.

At that age I found it so much easier to just be outside. There's nothing really to break outside!

Way less screen time.
Way more outdoor time.

Just do that for a couple of weeks and then take stock.

My son is either has either ASD or ADHD (on the waiting list atm!) and responds well to a challenge, for example ‘I bet you can’t eat seven peas!’

We also successfully operate a three strikes rule. At each strike he loses one thing he enjoys and he receives two warning before the strike is issued.

Strike 1: No Mario Kart time with daddy.

Strike 2: Loss of tv time for the day.

Strike 3: The sweets jar is emptied into the bin.

We have never got to strike three 😅

He’d probably go hungry for one meal time, he’s not going to starve because he doesn’t have a tv.

Lots of outside time - really wear them out. Waterproof dungarees if needed, but fresh air works on their nervous system.
Cut screen time, it might be tough for the first few days, but the overstimulation will be impacting their behaviour.
Then choose what you're willing to fight over, and what you're willing to let go, and then really stick to your guns so the kids know you're not going to let up. So if you've told DS2 to leave DS1 alone, one warning, then count to 3, then an immediate consequence. Only needs to be losing their notebook for 5 minutes. Then you give it back. If they do it again lose it for 10 minutes. Then the rest of the day. You'll be surprised how the first couple of times it won't work, but will work in a just a couple of days. They have to believe you'll follow through so don't have big consequences you won't follow through on