To think therapy culture is turning self-reflection into self-obsession?

What a strange example to use. So you think someone who is a repressed lesbian or bisexual, should not tell her husband about it, as to not hurt the feelings of that man? Is that what you mean by “forgetting about the rest of the world?” Genuinely asking?

I think most women would want to know if their husbands were gay or bisexual as opposed to him keeping that information repressed. The marriage is essentially based on false information with one side of the couple masking their real sexuality and the other half being misled.

imo, that’s the kind of thing you need to discuss/go to therapy for!

I think you sound quite dense, because most actual therapists would say the exact same thing. They don’t tell people that a paper cut is a “trauma” for example. Your view is quite, ignorant and based on what? Posts on social media as opposed to what actual medical professionals do and say?

I love the idea of "GCSE Common Sense" 😆A lot of people in my life could definitely have benefitted from it

I just did my own therapy speak, sorry 🤭

This is what I was trying to say.

This validation means a lot, thankyou, and I'm so sorry you experienced similar emotionally or physically. But i feel how you do. Xxx

Yes! 🤣🤣🤣

I've been told to blame my mum, and I think, but... Isn't she just as deserving of validation as I am?!

I was sexually assaulted as a child. I have a lot of trauma. My dad took me to the GP to be checked out at age 8. I had made strange complaints. My mum was away. They had no idea what had happened. GP never said to them, but it's my medical notes. I never told them either. I think they were superstars. Especially in the 80's. What can you do in that situation?! I think they were both amazing in their own way and I get a bit huffy with therapists who say they should have done something differently.
There are not many parents that would have taken their kids to be checked out for that in the 80's.

I don't want to blame anyone. I don't want to put up boundaries. I just want to be happy with who I am. NHS therapists seem to be much better at a whole picture. Private therapists seem to put you centre stage. I'm not comfortable with that. I don't exist in a vacuum. We ALL have trauma.

I agree

I've been trying to access therapy for almost...shit...20+ years now?

People would probably ask why? And what's the point? Well for me, I feel it would help to
A) understand why I am the way I am...certainly in terms of having experienced depression and anxiety since I was 11
B) to actually talk to someone about 20+ years of bad bad things that have negatively affected me, I've never been able to talk about any of it and as a result have always bottled it up inside which hasn't helped with my mental health. I a way I feel talking about it would help me literally let go of the past (have a high number of childhood ACEs that have never been resolved)
C) talking through it and understanding it would help me put in place proper healthy ways of coping with the things I struggle with.
D) having better coping strategies would enable me to build up mental resilience which would have a positive impact on my life, my ultimate hope being well enough to return to full time work.

I've had limited sessions through my work EAP scheme and genuinely they helped SO damn much. For one thing it helped me understand my relationship with my parents better. For a long time I felt quite negatively towards how I was treated but through therapy I have a much better understanding that genuinely my parents did the best they could but generational trauma is something that's passed down, by that I more mean of you look at past generations , things like mental illness and emotions were absolutely not dealt with, or talked about. They were shameful things to be hidden. So if that's been passed down then you cant expect someone to just suddenly be emotionally mature, they've never been taught or shown how to. Yes now we have a better understanding and opennes towards it but can't expect someone who's much much older to just automatically be able to deal with that or know how to. It gave me ways to bridge the gap and deal with it in a healthy way, without blame (cos there isn't blame, like I said I realise looking back they honestly did the best they could and are literally only human! We all make mistakes. The important thing is that we learn from them and make it better for those that come after and don't repeat the same mistakes)

I stopped my therapy as I had the insight to realise I was enjoying the wallowing and validation more than the possibility of getting better.

Time and a huge effort to be more outward looking helped me.

My hyperlink didn't work. I meant to say I think Wanda Sykes is personally responsible for my misinterpretation of how therapy worked.

I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope that grief counselling brings you some peace and comfort.

I have noticed this as well in therapy.

On the other hand, my mum, who probably actually is a clinical narcissist has access to a therapist, and is less than truthful or honest with them, and so the therapist can only work with what they're hearing, and it just provides her with more tools for narcissism and emotional manipualtion.

There's been a lot of "my therapist has advised me to do X when you say Y to me because that is unkind and hurtful to me, and I deserve better". - simplified for the sake of mumsnet, but pretty much along these lines. Usually when calling out batshit behaviour.

I know real life is not the movies, but before I had ever experienced any sort of therapy, I thought therapy would be like, you tell a therapist your problems, you let your woes out, and they genuinely call you out on your bullshit in order to allow self reflection.

Instead, it's a lot of validating your feelings even if some feelings probably shouldn't be validated.

The paper I quoted in a previous post explored the potential harm arising from teaching children about CBT in schools, with the intention of increasing mental health literacy, which is what it sounds like you were suggesting,

It feels counterintuitive because I would have thought any work that helps children to understand these links is helpful (and previously I was a big advocate for it), but it’s clear we need to understand the potential risks first. It goes to show how complex this is and difficult to make positive progress.

You would have to look at the individual studies to determine how mental health research and distress is defined.

“Potential harm from universal school-based mental health interventions: Candidate mechanisms and future directions” is one very recently published paper, but if you type “mental health interventions schools” into google scholar you’ll find a lot of research in this area.

This is what I think too.

Im not entirely sure about my private therapist. I do often say no to them as a lot of what they say seems to encourage narcissistic behaviour. And some of its nuts.
I'm glad I get 12 sessions a year on the NHS to balance it out tbh. Perks of having a disability.

I watched a very funny Alan Partridge programme last night. Hello how are you or something. It says it all. Either Iplayer or itvx I can't remember. It's so relevant.

There isn’t robust regulation of the therapeutic industry, and many people aren’t fit to be delivering therapy, never mind qualified to do so.

As a result there is also an over reliance on CBT by psychologists because it is empirically tested, which narrows the field too much, and in turn creates a market gap for the less qualified.

As a society we transferred our blind faith from priests to doctors in the 20th century, and from doctors to psychologists in the 21st. The latter don’t take a Hippocratic oath and now have much more influence than a soft science merits. This is a very significant challenge within the profession, but I’m not sure that it’s being met in a timely fashion.

There’s a very strong cultural belief in the magical powers of therapy to fix people. I see this over and over on mumsnet where it’s touted as the great panacea.

Coupled with this, a greedy pharmaceutical industry got away with pathologising normal life stress under the umbrella term “generalised anxiety” and doctors colluded in over medicating, in part because they are under resourced and it’s an easy option.

I actually think a large majority of people never take the time to reflect on their own internal world. People don't spend enough time thinking about their worldviews, unconscious beliefs, automatic thought patterns, how they relate to others and why, etc 🤷 that's why people continue to repeat the same cycles in relationships, and is a factor into how generational trauma carries on. Obviously self-reflection needs to take place along side meds, routine, hobbies, functioning, exercise, diet, etc, but it is important. A good routine and exercise will distract you/make you feel good in the moment, but it won't address any deep rooted issues you have with things like your self-esteem. There has to be a combination of internal and external work.

But yes Instagram style therapy speak is watered down bullshit. Obviously having a bad day at work is not 'traumatic'. Not everyone is a narcissist. Not all behaviours are toxic. Sometimes people are just dicks because they're people and thus makes mistakes.

A good therapist will encourage you to feel your feelings. That doesn't mean you need to sit and dwell on sadness. It just means it's helpful to learn to recognise it in your body and not push it down. It's a natural human emotion. It's painful, but has a function, and sadness is usually grief about things we can't change. Anger also has a function, which is to assertive a boundary. Lots of people push down sadness, which can lead to depression. Lots of people express uncontained rage instead of anger. It's good for everybody to think about the way we express our emotions and what our own emotional role models looked like.

I work in older adult mental mental health, and I see the generations who just got on with everything, and then they suddenly retire, have time with their thoughts, and wonder why they become anxious/depressed, when they have loads of trauma they've never processed.

But yes everyone calling everything a trauma dilutes it for people who are actually experiencing mental illness due to trauma. Genuine mental illness is not the wishy washy stuff you see on insta, it's debilitating for many people.

And yes I agree that there is absolutely a medicalisation of normal life events currently. Feeling depressed following the death of a loved one is absolutely normal, unless it carries on too long and impairs your functioning. Grief is normal. Occasional stress at work is normal.

I actually looked into this a few years ago and found this article insightful:

https://ideas.ted.com/the-right-way-to-be-introspective-yes-theres-a-wrong-way/

Have popped screenshot of a couple of key points relevant to this thread...there is research to prove too much naval gazing is associated with poorer wellbeing.

I wasn't talking about mental health education. I was talking about understanding how humans think, how and why they feel and how behaviours arise as a result.

When I went to school, back in the last century, I think the closest I got to it was social biology (which introduced me to the work of Jane Goodall, for which I'll always be grateful).

Some people use 'boundaries' as a way to not do anything for anyone that isn't entirely what they want. Some of the wedding threads where people exclude family members who have supported and looked after them just make me cringe.

If there's genuine abuse then that's different obviously.

What mental health education and how does it cause distress and metal health difficulties?

What research?

@HedwigEliza

100% agree. Even positive emotions such as taking joy in life, pride in one's achievements and satisfaction at having done what we set out to do are being watered down for fear of being judged.

There’s quite a lot of research now indicating that mental health education in schools can increase distress and mental health difficulties in children. I think supporting children living in poverty and addressing parental mental health difficulties will have a much bigger impact.

I agree.

We’re terrified of experiencing any type of pain now and avoid it at all costs. But pain is often useful - it’s a tremendous motivator, it makes you move, mentally as well as physically. We’re encouraged not to feel bad, not to experience negative emotions that might cause us pain when looking at ourselves and our actions; when done to excess, it’s unhelpful, but self-reflection, shame, guilt are all useful and necessary emotions that we can and should learn from.