Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Southport killer enabled by father

287 replies

crowsfeet57 · 06/11/2025 12:00

The evidence given by the school and the social worker highlighted how Axel Rudakubana's deteriorating behaviour was blamed on everyone else by his father. Now the father's own evidence is damning. surely this man should be charged as an accessory to the murders which he had many chances to prevent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20e8qd5d53t

Southport killer's father says he should have told police about son's machete delivery

Alphonse Rudakubana tells the inquiry he believes the 29 July attack would not have happened had he told the authorities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20e8qd5d53t

OP posts:
Netcurtainnelly · 06/11/2025 21:36

Firefly1987 · 06/11/2025 21:06

Can't help but think he does have some undiagnosed severe mental illness-the professionals don't always get it right, and I can't imagine he has been very talkative or cooperative.

He still owes the taxi driver for the fare the freak.

Netcurtainnelly · 06/11/2025 21:35

dnasurprise · 06/11/2025 15:15

I completely agree with this. There is no help for parents of abusive children. They don't even help or think about removing the abusive child when it impacts upon siblings. The child they talk about taking away is the non-violent one.
I feel sorry for the parents and family here. It is agony living in fear of your child. They take over the whole house, control what is said/watched on tv. You always worry that they might kick off, smash the house up or hurt you or one of their siblings. At the same time you are often blamed for everything and you want to protect them.

Shouldn't let it get that far.
He obviously had no discipline as a child and it escalated.

Firefly1987 · 06/11/2025 21:06

Can't help but think he does have some undiagnosed severe mental illness-the professionals don't always get it right, and I can't imagine he has been very talkative or cooperative.

Crunchymum · 06/11/2025 21:02

The statements from the victims parents are all unequivocal in their blame towards AR's parents. Other agencies are mentioned but AR's parents are the main focus.

I'm not sure if there is information the public aren't privy to but all 3 sets of parents lay the blame with AR's parents, particularly his dad.

This is surely very telling? They have all the information, they've seen AR's parents give their evidence, they all clearly believe AR's parents could have and should have done something to save their children.

Efacsen · 06/11/2025 20:58

AgileLemonShark · 06/11/2025 20:44

I still don’t understand why they didn’t go after him after he left home without saying anything, having stopped him the week before, after having not gone out for a year, knowing his mental state and him having weapons.

They knew he’d left the house as his father said he heard the door and shouted to his mother. His mother said she watched him walk up the street but thought it was OK as he didn’t look like he had a weapon although she was nervous. What kind of weapon did she think she’d see from the upstairs window then when he must have had it in his pocket!

I have an ASD young adult DS and he has gone out unannounced in the past when he went through a period of struggling with depression, no propensity for violence, wanting to harm anybody, having weapons or not leaving the house for long periods though, only concerned about him harming himself, and we used to follow him at a distance to check he was OK and at one point put a tracker in an inside coat pocket.

Can’t fathom letting a severely mentally ill young man with a propensity for violence, a history of wanting to stab somebody and knowing he had weapons bought for no other purpose than to harm someone, to just leave the house without trying to stop him, follow him or alert the police.

Even if they failed to stop the attack, at least they would have tried to.

They need to be done for accessory or aiding and abetting IMO.

The main focus of violence for AR [outside the household] was the 'bullies' at his old school several miles away and where he had attempted to visit the previous week on the last day of term

So leaving home wouldn't have held that threat - tho' unbeknownst to his parents he had a new target and a taxi round the corner

GingerPaste · 06/11/2025 20:44

Efacsen · 06/11/2025 14:32

His father was a victim of torture - I'd think that was fairly unusual in your caseload?

Hard agree.

AgileLemonShark · 06/11/2025 20:44

I still don’t understand why they didn’t go after him after he left home without saying anything, having stopped him the week before, after having not gone out for a year, knowing his mental state and him having weapons.

They knew he’d left the house as his father said he heard the door and shouted to his mother. His mother said she watched him walk up the street but thought it was OK as he didn’t look like he had a weapon although she was nervous. What kind of weapon did she think she’d see from the upstairs window then when he must have had it in his pocket!

I have an ASD young adult DS and he has gone out unannounced in the past when he went through a period of struggling with depression, no propensity for violence, wanting to harm anybody, having weapons or not leaving the house for long periods though, only concerned about him harming himself, and we used to follow him at a distance to check he was OK and at one point put a tracker in an inside coat pocket.

Can’t fathom letting a severely mentally ill young man with a propensity for violence, a history of wanting to stab somebody and knowing he had weapons bought for no other purpose than to harm someone, to just leave the house without trying to stop him, follow him or alert the police.

Even if they failed to stop the attack, at least they would have tried to.

They need to be done for accessory or aiding and abetting IMO.

Kitte321 · 06/11/2025 20:40

AgileLemonShark · 06/11/2025 20:01

Exactly. Thats what makes this case a bit different from other cases of teens carrying out crimes where their parents may be neglectful in terms of not knowing what their DC are up to, who they are doing it with or where they are. These parents practically enabled their son to commit this attack.

They knew he had weapons in his bedroom, his state of mind and had taken a knife on a bus previously.

They were concerned enough the week before to prevent their son getting into a taxi to his old school.

The father said he immediately feared his son was involved when he heard about the murders therefore he must have been aware that there was a specific risk of him carrying out an attack like that because most parents would NOT immediately fear their child was involved in something like that.

The mother apparently tried to prevent the father sharing information with a family support worker and now in giving evidence seems to have amnesia about the events leading up to the attack,

They knew he had said he wanted to stab somebody.

Both parents saw him go out that morning but did nothing to try to see where he was going after apparently not going out for over a year. Any parent knowing their child posed that kind of risk. Knowing he had weapons, seeing him go out when they’d stopped him the week before, would have at least gone after them. They would have seen him get into a taxi and immediately tried to stop it or called the police to stop it, they could have checked to see if his weapons were still in his bedroom while on the phone to the police. Amazon said someone who looked over 25 accepted the delivery of knives used in the attack so it wasn’t him.

There were 15 minutes to stop the taxi or get a police car to follow it to stop him when he got to the community centre. The parents said they didn’t see him get into a taxi from the house so he must have got in it away from the house which may have given further time to stop it while he waiting for it/walking to it.

Too right the parents are culpable. He was a ticking time bomb and it looks like they let him go off, horrifically murdering little kids and leaving the other kids and adults looking after them with wounds and after effects for life. They may not have envisaged him attacking little girls but they knew someone was at risk, even themselves with those weapons in his bedroom.

They knew better than anyone else what was going on in their home. They found the weapons, knew he wanted to kill. At the very least all weapons should have been handed in at the police station immediately, knives, scissors, etc, should have been locked away. Once they knew he was buying weapons online, he shouldn’t have had access to any money at all.

I think the police may have taken action if they were alerted to the weapons in his bedroom. Especially as he’d previously taken a knife on a bus, they’d picked him up and he’d said he wanted to stab somebody while in the police car! They may have searched his room and found the ricin. He would have been arrested for having the ricin and the horror he created may have been averted.

This is a not a case of the parents not being aware.

FFS weapons in his bedroom that they knew about!

Sadly, I think this is all true. I also suspect that what has been disclosed at the inquest (the weapons, withholding information, escalating violence, school suggesting he was watching unsuitable content, his disturbing comments) is only a snapshot of their knowledge. It’s the stuff that they have to admit knowledge of, as it’s in record.
The text sent by his brother suggests they knew there was escalation in his behaviour. As does the fact his dad intervened in his previous attempt to take a taxi to his old school.
His parents should have tried harder and done more - they knew more about his behaviours than anyone. Who knows if those pleas would have fallen on deaf ears but it doesn’t feel like they tried harder enough.
It’s truly heartbreaking.

Firefly1987 · 06/11/2025 20:24

I'm sorry but wasn't his dad a martial arts teacher or something? He had zero reason to be scared of his son it should've been the other way around, and if he was then accepting boxes of weapons on his behalf doesn't exactly make him or his family safer?! Kids used to be scared of their dads, mine would've kicked the shit out of any of us-not saying that's right but we wouldn't have been hoarding weapons in his house.

Greysofa · 06/11/2025 20:19

And we wonder why innocent children contine to be at risk and lose their lives! Some of those on this thread need to take a long hard look at themselves and forget it’s not all about them and their experiences.
It’s clear that the Dad knew his son had weapons, had made threats to kill and had been stopped from going out previously armed, yet did nothing to alert anyone to this or to stop that animal leaving the house that day. Coupled with the evidence from professionals of his own demeanour and behaviour, how he can live with himself I don’t know. If the government want to make a stand, then they find a way of prosecuting this man. But we know it won’t happen and he will continue to be a drain on our society, as is his animal son.
Let’s not forget, those poor innocent babies went to a dance class and were murdered in cold blood. If anyone could have prevented it and didn’t, then they have blood on their hands and should face consequences

JeminaTheGiantBear · 06/11/2025 20:07

The father is quoted as saying: ‘I knew, of course, if I tell the police [ie about the weapons & violence] they would take him [AR] away’.

I simply can’t see how liability cannot arise from this statement.

This is a million miles away from all of the dedicated parents on this thread who have desperately tried to get help for children and failed. There is simply no comparison.

He knew the risk. Moreover he knew (or believed) it could be prevented by taking his son to a place where he would be controlled.

He chose to stand in the way of preventing it.

This could happen again. Punishment may deter others from similarly failing society & basic human decency.

AgileLemonShark · 06/11/2025 20:01

Kitte321 · 06/11/2025 18:50

I don’t know.
Ive just read through the transcripts on the BBC. It seems to say that 2 days before his brother sent a message to his friend that his dad had warned him his brother could kill him. It also sounds like he hadn’t been out alone for a long time prior to that day.
His parents sound evasive and passive.
Surely, if you know you have a child with escalating violence, housing weapons and you have gone to the lengths of warning your own son, you question him when he is seen leaving the house.
Clearly, there are so many things that could have been done differently in the run up to those horrifying events. By his parents and others.

Exactly. Thats what makes this case a bit different from other cases of teens carrying out crimes where their parents may be neglectful in terms of not knowing what their DC are up to, who they are doing it with or where they are. These parents practically enabled their son to commit this attack.

They knew he had weapons in his bedroom, his state of mind and had taken a knife on a bus previously.

They were concerned enough the week before to prevent their son getting into a taxi to his old school.

The father said he immediately feared his son was involved when he heard about the murders therefore he must have been aware that there was a specific risk of him carrying out an attack like that because most parents would NOT immediately fear their child was involved in something like that.

The mother apparently tried to prevent the father sharing information with a family support worker and now in giving evidence seems to have amnesia about the events leading up to the attack,

They knew he had said he wanted to stab somebody.

Both parents saw him go out that morning but did nothing to try to see where he was going after apparently not going out for over a year. Any parent knowing their child posed that kind of risk. Knowing he had weapons, seeing him go out when they’d stopped him the week before, would have at least gone after them. They would have seen him get into a taxi and immediately tried to stop it or called the police to stop it, they could have checked to see if his weapons were still in his bedroom while on the phone to the police. Amazon said someone who looked over 25 accepted the delivery of knives used in the attack so it wasn’t him.

There were 15 minutes to stop the taxi or get a police car to follow it to stop him when he got to the community centre. The parents said they didn’t see him get into a taxi from the house so he must have got in it away from the house which may have given further time to stop it while he waiting for it/walking to it.

Too right the parents are culpable. He was a ticking time bomb and it looks like they let him go off, horrifically murdering little kids and leaving the other kids and adults looking after them with wounds and after effects for life. They may not have envisaged him attacking little girls but they knew someone was at risk, even themselves with those weapons in his bedroom.

They knew better than anyone else what was going on in their home. They found the weapons, knew he wanted to kill. At the very least all weapons should have been handed in at the police station immediately, knives, scissors, etc, should have been locked away. Once they knew he was buying weapons online, he shouldn’t have had access to any money at all.

I think the police may have taken action if they were alerted to the weapons in his bedroom. Especially as he’d previously taken a knife on a bus, they’d picked him up and he’d said he wanted to stab somebody while in the police car! They may have searched his room and found the ricin. He would have been arrested for having the ricin and the horror he created may have been averted.

This is a not a case of the parents not being aware.

FFS weapons in his bedroom that they knew about!

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 19:47

lljkk · 06/11/2025 19:41

Legally people aren't responsible NOW for their relatives' crimes, but PP said they should be forced to prove they aren't Not responsible. I wondered why stop that "principle" at parent-child relationship.

Would be very logical for people to stop having kids, to avoid the you-are-guilty-until-proven-innocent if your-relative-committed-a-crime penalties. I guess then all the people could work until they actually dropped .... or society could import people age 16-64 to be the working age population.

Very logical indeed !!!
darn, now the laws changed, I shan’t be answering my noise of my biological clock and having children … I might give birth to a mass murderer !!!

thats bonkers !!

the parents :
argued with the school trying to discipline him
withheld info to Cahms and social services
were obstructive and intimidating to services
allowed the son to assemble an arsenal of weapons - which they paid for, accepted at the door and allowed his access to
they immediately knew it was him when the news broke of the murders
they knew exactly what he was and did nothing

lljkk · 06/11/2025 19:41

CautiousLurker2 · 06/11/2025 14:42

Sorry - not seeing the link between plummeting birthrates and increased immigration - I’m just suggesting that the legal responsibility that exists for all parents in every other area of life is extended to them actively parenting their problem children. Unless you feel that the onerousness of actually having to parent one’s children means there will be less need for contraceptives?

No bloody idea how that extends to spouses and teachers… who are NOT legally responsible for the actions of other peoples children or those of other adults?

Edited

Legally people aren't responsible NOW for their relatives' crimes, but PP said they should be forced to prove they aren't Not responsible. I wondered why stop that "principle" at parent-child relationship.

Would be very logical for people to stop having kids, to avoid the you-are-guilty-until-proven-innocent if your-relative-committed-a-crime penalties. I guess then all the people could work until they actually dropped .... or society could import people age 16-64 to be the working age population.

CoralPombear · 06/11/2025 19:34

Ivyfanclub · 06/11/2025 19:19

But the father was obstructive of authority. It wasn’t just about him not reporting the knives. I have read through the transcripts and he clearly excused and minimised his son’s behaviour. When his son was set detentions he said the school was picking on him. When Childline contacted the police he complained about breach of confidentiality! I am sorry but if your child is carrying knives and threatening to kill people there is no confidentiality. The father shouted at the police. He did not tell CAMHS about the knives.

He undermined authority, and then wondered why he had no control over his son at home. The son learned that his actions did not have consequences because Dad would back him up anyway.

I understand that Dad had experienced trauma in Rwanda, but in that case he should have allowed the professionals freedom to intervene with his son and been more honest.

I agree. The parents obstructed, complained about and hid things from the services trying to help even though they knew he was dangerous. I don’t believe they should face criminal charges but I hope to see them accept some responsibility for their failures towards their own child and all too sadly, other people’s children.

Ivyfanclub · 06/11/2025 19:19

But the father was obstructive of authority. It wasn’t just about him not reporting the knives. I have read through the transcripts and he clearly excused and minimised his son’s behaviour. When his son was set detentions he said the school was picking on him. When Childline contacted the police he complained about breach of confidentiality! I am sorry but if your child is carrying knives and threatening to kill people there is no confidentiality. The father shouted at the police. He did not tell CAMHS about the knives.

He undermined authority, and then wondered why he had no control over his son at home. The son learned that his actions did not have consequences because Dad would back him up anyway.

I understand that Dad had experienced trauma in Rwanda, but in that case he should have allowed the professionals freedom to intervene with his son and been more honest.

Kitte321 · 06/11/2025 18:50

I don’t know.
Ive just read through the transcripts on the BBC. It seems to say that 2 days before his brother sent a message to his friend that his dad had warned him his brother could kill him. It also sounds like he hadn’t been out alone for a long time prior to that day.
His parents sound evasive and passive.
Surely, if you know you have a child with escalating violence, housing weapons and you have gone to the lengths of warning your own son, you question him when he is seen leaving the house.
Clearly, there are so many things that could have been done differently in the run up to those horrifying events. By his parents and others.

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:48

user1492538376 · 06/11/2025 18:42

While I think the parents have been serious errors and judgement - its very easy to say all this in hindsight. What the killer did was truly awful and horrific - but extremely rare - and I am not sure they would have forseen this. Also it sounds like they had it quite tough - disabled son, traumatic upbringing.

But it wasn’t even hindsight that gave them clarity …
the minute the father heard of the appalling incident, he said knew it would be his son !!!
what parent would think that if they didn’t have a very clear idea about the severity of this child’s disturbing personality???

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:45

Whatafustercluck · 06/11/2025 18:05

This is a really insightful, and accurate post. I remember trying to explain to the school senco, the family worker and CAMHS how our then 5/6yo daughter was making us so scared in our own home that we'd put locks on our bedroom doors. How she'd literally drawn blood, thrown things, kicked, bitten, scratched, punched. The Southport case is exactly why we've fought so hard for our daughter to be well supported, and not taken no for an answer. It's why we've tried so hard to research and be amateur psychologists - because no help was coming unless we found it within us to do it ourselves.

What happened in this case saw a regular, smiling schoolboy of 12 turn into a murderous monster, seemingly over the space of one summer. We have to look at the reasons for that, and all parties bear responsibility for that.

I'm only thankful that we kept battling for our daughter's mental health and we were able to understand her and support her from an early enough stage of her life to prevent her from spiralling. But we still bear the scars.

The Southport murders is incredibly sad, for everyone. The photos of those little girls - so similar to my own - will stay with me forever. They didn't need to die.

But he was no regular smiling kid -
the family had been hiding the kitchen knives for years because of his violent behaviour
unlike yourself, desperately trying to access services for your DD, they were doing the opposite - keeping services at arms length, minimising and enabling the purchasing of an arsenal of weaponary -
this is not an example of an autistic child being let down by services (of which there are many, sadly) this is an example of a family not allowing services to do the basics -

user1492538376 · 06/11/2025 18:42

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:36

“Left to cope ???”
they were withholding information about his violent behaviour …
they were hiding their own kitchen knives yet enabling him to have crossbow / machete, large knives etc !!!

While I think the parents have been serious errors and judgement - its very easy to say all this in hindsight. What the killer did was truly awful and horrific - but extremely rare - and I am not sure they would have forseen this. Also it sounds like they had it quite tough - disabled son, traumatic upbringing.

Noodledog · 06/11/2025 18:41

CharlotteLightandDark · 06/11/2025 14:40

AR’s initial consultant psychiatrist from alder hey said she found the father so obstructive and intimidating she passed the case over to another, male psychiatrist. Said that’s the only time in her career she’s felt the need to do that. He also obstructed the social workers, making complaints about confidentiality breaches when they shared information.

I think that’s quite telling.

This is really quite shocking. Initially I had a lot of sympathy for the parents, but the more I read about their behaviour - particularly the behaviour of the father - the more it diminishes. I do feel sorry for the brother having to grow up around AR, it must have been a nightmare.

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:40

BreatheAndFocus · 06/11/2025 18:37

the family were colluding and enabling his disturbing behaviour - and they should be held accountable for that

Yes, and more than that, purposely concealing his behaviours and the extent of the issues. The authorities weren’t blameless either, but if they’d had the full information, then things might have been very different.

Exactly -
very, very hard for services to carry out even a basic risk assessment if the parents are with holding information-

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:38

Notaflippinclue · 06/11/2025 18:28

Violent in the extreme
Manufacturing ricin
obsessed with genocide and terrorism
obsessed with online death porn
Owned Al-Qaeda manual
watching Isis execution videos
Machete delivered to home
Seems everyone around him family and services were blind deaf and dumb

He hadn’t left the home for 2 years !!
so all that collecting of weapons / poisons / books was going on under the parents roof / noses …
they knew

BreatheAndFocus · 06/11/2025 18:37

the family were colluding and enabling his disturbing behaviour - and they should be held accountable for that

Yes, and more than that, purposely concealing his behaviours and the extent of the issues. The authorities weren’t blameless either, but if they’d had the full information, then things might have been very different.

PolyVagalNerve · 06/11/2025 18:36

UsernameMcUsername · 06/11/2025 18:30

I looked up the church his parents went to, out of curiosity (I know that area a bit through family) and it really didn't have that vibe at all. It could have been my church, basically. You have to go well outside the mainstream of UK Christianity to find people who wouldn't do anything bar 'pray about it' in this situation, and I say that as someone who knows some quite conservative evangelical Christians coping with severe MH issues themselves or in their families.

But anyway, back to the actual issues.....I think the parents were themselves victims of horrible emotional and physical abuse. They were left to cope with someone who should have been in a secure institutional setting for his own wellbeing and for the safety of others. It annoys me seeing them used as punchbags. But I'm possibly sensitive having seen two different friends trying to cope with violent teens (both with autism, learning difficulties & a number of MH issues) and seeing how little support they got

Edited

“Left to cope ???”
they were withholding information about his violent behaviour …
they were hiding their own kitchen knives yet enabling him to have crossbow / machete, large knives etc !!!