Southport killer enabled by father

I agree. If residential care had been offered to the parents for him, maybe they'd have taken up the offer. But families are left to cope alone as we don't want to fund proper care.

'An EHCP is not the place to make comments like this. That is not its purpose!'

Does EHCP routinely contain a quality risk assessment (self AND others) in cases where risk has been identified? If not - perhaps it should?

There is a misconception that once all of young person's needs are identified and supported by others, things will settle, including aggression as well as risk.

He needed both an EHCP and timely and appropriate mental health support.

Services are on their knees. Everything has ground to a halt. Until the public recognize that that is the real issue then nothing will improve.

He didn’t need an EHCP.

He needed indefinite sectioning and a padded cell.

An EHCP is not the place to make comments like this. That is not its purpose!

We need to call a spade a spade. Obfuscating concerns by downplaying the language helps absolutely nobody. I couldn’t care less how their parents ‘wanted him described’ I care about these sinister individuals being identified for what they are and treated accordingly.

Frankly I couldn’t care less about the ‘rights’ of these budding psychopaths. I care about them being indefinitely sectioned and medicated to keep society safe.

Of course she was asked to remove this from his EHCP! This is absolutely NOT appropriate for an EHCP and not how parents who obviously loved their child and were desperate for support for him would want their child described. They were fighting for support, being blocked from getting appropriate support, being given unsafe advice. They were expected to put themselves and kids at harm by implementing unsafe strategies in order to implement methods that could escalate to violence and make their son's mental health even worse.

They needed support and compassion and above all to be allowed to live in safety. Not constant criticism of their parenting over several years. They were at their wit's end, terrified for their child, terrified for themselves.

When did he get diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic? He's not in a secure hospital is he?

If he was I would agree with you-seeing as my brother is a paranoid schizophrenic so I actually do know. I don't agree when people blame the Nottingham killer's family so I understand the anger-but this wasn't an adult man his family had no control of. Especially not when his problematic behaviours first started.

Rudakubana's headteacher said she was accused of racial profiling, though, and was told to remove the words "sinister", "cold" and "calculating" from his education plan. The first time she met him, she asked him why he had brought a knife to his previous school, and he looked her in the eye and replied, "To use it." She said his parents were there and didn't even flinch when he said it.

And according to the mental health workers, the problem with this scenario was the word "sinister".

Well he’s not alone is he? Huge culture now of brewing up dangerous, radicalised kids then blaming support services for not untangling the mess. Look at the number of ‘anxious teens’ living on devices and not going to school, with the parent tiptoeing around them as they spend their time looking at God knows what, with the parents then blaming CAMHS for not jumping in to save the day immediately.

Police often say it's a social care issue which is unhelpful. Agencies just point the finger at each other & when nothing happens as there's no money or resources it's the parents' fault. If you read the inquiry it's obvious how they were treated by the system.

Well exactly. So how on earth you think the parents should be prosecuted is beyond me.

You've posted yourself about how few residential places there are in the UK.

What, exactly, would you have had his parents do? Chain him up so he can't leave the house? Bearing in mind his parents already had to bribe him to do things like take showers, do you really think they'd have come to no harm if they'd tried to stop him?

As you say, what exactly would you have social services, doctors, and foster carers do? Why do you think his parents must have had some magic solution where the professionals don't?

AR was known to the police. After they found him on a bus with a knife he was returned to his parents with no further action taken. He was known to Prevent, which did nothing despite multiple referrals.

He was known to multiple agencies.

Even if his parents had called the police that day when he got in the taxi, what exactly do you think would have happened, bearing in mind he was not under any high-risk flags and hadn't actually committed any crime at that point - how fast do you think the police would have responded? Fast enough to find where he'd gone, identify the taxi he got into, and get to the dance class before he made his attack? How realistic do you really think it is that the police would have got there on time?

The only person responsible for what happened that day is AR.

The failings of our social care system and mental health support is the responsibility of multiple successive governments.

The person leading the enquiry stated that authorities again amd again used Autism as an excuse for his violent behaviour, will there now be a change in attitude in dealing with this, When do parents need to seek help and advice from police re children showing extreme violence.

His teachers said they had a sense of dread, the headteacher said
a serious incident was waiting to happen. Knives taken to school- nothing done by police . Caught with a knife on the bus - nothing done by police.

Exactly. Lots of families live with a son who keeps knives in their bedroom. They live in a state of fear desperate to appease the schizophrenic.

There is no help.

Martial arts don’t stop the fear of being stabbed by a machete in your sleep by your paranoid schizophrenic son.

You really have zero clue what you’re on about.

What is your source? I haven’t seen anything that says they were largely to blame. You are ignoring all the agencies that have been blamed.

The parents were clearly desperate for help and gaslit every step of the way. The £40 for a shower was obviously because they were desperate. They clearly were not getting the right support. They should never be criticised for not wanting to escalate violence, being told it was failure to set boundaries is a fob off. They needed intensive and effective support and clearly did not receive it and were just left to it.

The judge is saying that SS risk assessments - not to the child, to others - should be done by a central agency who manages reports from schools, SS, etc..

It’s a start. AR was only referred to SS because they thought he was ‘vulnerable’ himself. You can be vulnerable and dangerous, it’s a common combo.

But given AR wasn’t mentally ill, what are you then going to do with him?

Care?
Custody?
Doctor?

GPs don’t treat evil. Foster parents can’t. And how long can you shut him up
for?

174 places in 🇬🇧. There’s more than that number of violent kids in London alone.

Secure units and children’s MH facilities still do exist.

I believe social services would potentially cover the second part, provided the family had involvement.

I thought all this started around 12.

Good grief. Are you saying that this behaviour was OK because AR was autistic?

Being ND isn't in itself an excuse for bad behaviour or bad parenting.

We need secure children’s hospitals back and a state agency that doesn’t let dangerous under-18s go off radar.

The parents must be prosecuted. If you read their words from the trial, their chilling indifference scared me more than the attack.

I suspect that there has been some scapegoating of the parents tbh. They were clearly unsupported, terrified, told to do things that could escalate the situation. And then criticised for not doing things that could put them in danger.