Southport killer enabled by father

Oh no so many failings at so many points. Just awful.

From the enquiry transcripts, the mother proved herself the stinkiest shit you’ve ever gagged at.

The mother lied, lied, got aggressive, lied and lied more over the years to stop health and education access for her son.

She wanted to watch tv in peace.

She lied in the enquiry. She lied to the school, the father, the police, you name it. She needs to be prosecuted.

Good luck in prison. She can watch tv there.

Ultimately services knew what the situation was. It was very well known. Nothing was done about it. Police were called many times, many safeguarding reports were raised. Everyone passed the buck - this has been heavily criticised. A child with very significant complex mental health difficulties who was very violent should not have been left to his parents to manage. If there were concerns about the parents' ability to manage an escalating situation then he should not have been at home. He needed intensive support and did not receive this. This is not something that could be fixed through 'parenting'. AR posed a major risk and this should have been taken seriously.

@GloiredeDijon
I'm not denying the parents role in all of this but the Police Social services MH teams are supposed to be able to deal with people who lie, inc parents... its core to their jobs.

Yes the discussion is about the parents enabling AR but i'm also allowed to disagree that its all on them.

On the pp who said "How do you treat evil?"

Well, lock them up, as we used too, in MH "hospitals" indefinitely, its very scary that we closed these places down, where are these people now?

We rely on self administered medications instead and short term stays.. all cost cutting, fair better to turn a Victorian Asylum into a Golf Club or housing.. as has happened to the institutions near me.

You’ve made a statement that the parents were largely to blame, which is not backed up any news reports I’ve seen.

It may be a simple statement, but you still need to provide a source before you make such judgements on people.

If the inquiry has said the parents were largely to blame, it would have been reported by the press.

The taxi driver saw what AR was up to and didn’t call police.

He fled and rang his BFF after a cuppa re a knifeman & telling him to avoid the area. He could have stopped AR.

It’s right taxi driver lives with himself.

We are specifically talking about the parents themselves here.
Have you read their own words? How they lied? How they misled the school, police? How they fought intervention?

They knew exactly what their son was doing.

The mother saw the machete being delivered. Her fingerprints are on the packaging labelled knife, over 18 verification needed etc but now she tries to lie about it.

She saw her son leave the house that day and knew he had not been out of the house in his own for two years following the incident where he was caught on a bus carrying a knife and had told police he wanted to stab someone.

The father was aggressive to professionals trying to help.

He gave his son the money to buy weapons, to watch extreme violence.

This is well beyond your bog standard crap parenting, and I speak from experience of having worked in child protection.

Professional agency failures are already acknowledged but we are discussing the parent’s conduct.

House arrest for people at risk of harming others. They can maybe do some community service where they are strictly supervised and of course no access to vulnerable people. And perhaps some sort of strictly supervised therapy online and in person. Online access must be absolutely capped and in household where such individuals live access to the internet must be limited to safe content. So after AR went to his school with a knife when he was no longer a pupil there, he gets house arrest for a certain amount ofttimes. If he is seen ordering and keeping weapons as he was, house arrest should be extended and privileges such as internet access further reduced.

They need to change the law around this. There should be a legal mechanism to compel people to act. Mandatory reporting? Surely he's broken the law in accepting a knife for someone under 18? The whole thing is shocking.

I didn’t realise he had got a taxi to the dance class. That poor sod who drove him there, that’s a horrible thing to live with.

My source is Adrian Fulford who ran the public inquiry. I listened to him speak for about an hour, yesterday. His conclusions were quite clear.

What’s your agenda? I don’t understand your visceral response to my simple post.

So how do you treat evil?

The judge seems to think that if AR had been intervened with earlier, he wouldn’t have gone on to mass murder. Would he?

Didn’t work with the Tate Pusher. AR was a lot worse than that.

A) AR School did try to intervene firmly. When school staff tried to get help after AR trotted round with a knife aged 11 looking to finish a schoolmate, they were told they could be seen as racist because AR’s black, no idea re race of victim.

Beyond shameful given the school knew him. The truthful report was watered down.

B) Assuming that lethal mistake had not derailed the search to fix AR, he would have been taken into care but only after years of delays and failed extensions at home with the parents.

The Tate pusher was taken into care pretty quickly as he tried to kill the family females a lot. AR didn’t hurt his family - he needed them as accomplices.

C) So what happens in care? I don’t think there are foster parents who treat psychopathy or who can turn off the web.

Not sure therapists do either. Carers don’t.

Tate Pusher was 2:1 round the clock and he still carried out attacks.

AR needed to be in hospital (not least so his internet use could be adjusted) and doped to stop violence if he went out. Given most of us agree no one has the right to murder, he stays there till he stops the threats.

What is your source?

What? They were not ‘desperate for support’. This is from a report on the enquiry:

“Fulford also found that Rudakubana’s parents bore “considerable blame for what occurred” by obstructing efforts by mental health and social services to intervene. The couple, especially Rudakubana’s father Alphonse, failed to “stand up” to their son’s behaviour and displayed “manipulative and harmful” attitudes towards the agencies involved in his care, he said.”

They ignored the increasing escalation.

So you don’t have a source saying his parents were largely to blame?

You realise that’s misinformation?

That may well be the case BUT we have to have systems in place to deal with terrible parenting.

All of them failed, its very handy to blame the parents but the reality is, had Police, Schools, Social Services done or been able to do their jobs, this attack would never have happened.

Imho this isn't something that has been allowed to happen since Austerity, it stems from the closure of MH institutions back in the 80s and 90s, yes they were abusive in many cases but they also took very dangerous people out of society.

ARs parents were left to cope alone with an extremely dangerous young man. I can't bring myself to judge them in those circumstances. Especially not when police and other agencies had all washed their hands of him - where else would his parents have left to turn?

Agreed @LVhandbagsatdawn

I got unbelievably cross at the simplistic headline of parents failing their moral duty.

They had to live with him day in, day out. They had to deal with his moods, his violence every flipping day.

I don't know how much my moral fibre would have been worn down over years for the sake of a slightly calmer home. Or how much I'd have given up, as no one who might be able to help was listening or acting.

Residential care costs a fortune. No CAMHS beds. Usually all that can be offered is medication. Social care have no money. Years of austerity and COVID means that services are on their knees.

That may be the case but there needs to be a place to cover this. He took in a sharpened hockey stick to school to attack a student.

Pretty much.

I said this to an OP who was being abused on another thread: if you want help, just don't collect your child from school and tell the school to contact SS. You have to force SS's hand because otherwise you'll get absolutely no help - certainly not the help that you need.

ARs parents were left to cope alone with an extremely dangerous young man. I can't bring myself to judge them in those circumstances. Especially not when police and other agencies had all washed their hands of him - where else would his parents have left to turn?

Listening to the points where he was intercepted by police and he made violent statements and they just took him back home.

No arrest or search, the latter would have shown he was preparing ricin.

So sad. Those poor little girls and families.

Having read all the evidence given by the parents they failed constantly not just on occasions and this was over many years.

Before you feel any sympathy for them, beyond the initial sympathy of having a psychotic son in the first place, read their own words.

They lie, they contradict themselves.

It is a criminal level of failure.

I listened to the publication proceedings yesterday. There were a lot of mistakes, absolutely, but his parents caused a lot of them by covering up for him, excusing him and lying for him to the various agencies. 🤷‍♀️

"residential care offered"

I had to laugh at that. In my area, I know 2 families who've told their social workers that they aren't going to be at home when the child is dropped off from school, as they can't cope anymore.

Suddenly a massive amount of money is found to pay for PA hours, as there ARE no residential care spaces.

This is a really powerful watch

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023db6

He was way beyond ‘mental health support’. There are no 100% effective therapies which prevent a psychopath from murdering little girls. He was a bad apple through and through and no amount of CBT and chats was going to change that.