To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

I disagree. If a child was really wilfully naughty, a short sharp smack on the butt can be very effective.

Like I said, it's academic anyway, because I never really wanted kids and am now post-menopausal. Guess what, I knew I wouldn't have the patience.

Sometimes when I ask myself that question, I wonder whether it's me getting old or the times have changed. It's not just gentle parenting. A lot of things seem to have changed recently. For example, my sister has one daughter and sometimes I am under the impression that she wants to plan every second of her day every day. She just won't let her be bored even one day a week. She always has to be doing something. I honestly don't remember our parents being like that.

I am also finding that teachers these days are just afraid to do or say anything, and I understand them: it's either political correctness, rules or regulations or something else.. God forbid anyone gets offended, traumatised or upset. It's like you can't put your foot right anymore. And it isn't just with children. Sometimes it kind of feels like that at work too. It's as if we are living in a world of snowflakes.

I don't know if we just weren't aware of the issues or potential issues that existed before or the world really has changed.

How can you feel responsible for safety or wellbeing and think physical violence is acceptable?

I disagree. If a child was really wilfully naughty, a short sharp smack on the butt can be very effective.

Like I said, it's academic anyway, because I never really wanted kids and am now post-menopausal. Guess what, I knew I wouldn't have the patience.

I am not responsible for the safety, welfare, or upbringing of my spouse or boss, am I? Whereas I would be for children. Additionally, I can reason with my spouse or boss, whereas children don't have adult reasoning powers. I highly doubt that my spouse or boss would key my car or throw a toy truck at my head or write on my walls. And I am not responsible for how my spouse or boss turns out as an adult.

Your comparison is meaningless.

Hitting a child won't make them listen or get to the route of the apparent naughtiness.

You may not go around hitting people, but you advocate for hitting defenceless children.

If you don't do your job correctly, is it appropriate for your boss to smack you?

If you forgot to do a household task or did it incorrectly, would it be ok for your spouse to smack you?

I didn't DS was (is) a clever, tenacious and determined child. He needed clear bounderies and firm enforcement of those bounderies (many older women including MIL regularly told me he needed spanking). Gentle persuasion was compltely ineffectual, the only things that ever worked for him were tangible rewards and significant consequences. We also had to be absolutely consistent any deviation and he'd drive a truck through it. Hard work and as PP said not especially fair on his much calmer and amenable sister but thems the breaks. IME the wheels really come off with permissive parenting in the teenage years.

I do wonder sometimes if people who are against any form of mild physical chastisement simply have easy children. What if you have a seriously naughty one, who will not listen, ever?

If mild open-handed chastisement on the butt to cause a shock, not an injury, when a child is being seriously naughty and nothing else works, then yes, I suppose I do.

Well, I have been a child, and like most Seventies/Eighties children, I was smacked occasionally. I can assure you that I do not go around hitting people now! So that's that theory of yours dead in the water. As for having no idea what I'm talking about because I don't have them, I disagree. It's not hard to use your imagination.

You do think it's ok to physically abuse others though.

That's not a voice of reason. Spanking is physical abuse. It's illegal where I live.

Well, I have been a child, and like most Seventies/Eighties children, I was smacked occasionally. I can assure you that I do not go around hitting people now! So that's that theory of yours dead in the water. As for having no idea what I'm talking about because I don't have them, I disagree. It's not hard to use your imagination.

Right, well where I live physical punishment is illegal.

THANK YOU! The voice of reason, at last.

I'm British but live in the US.

Physical abuse is leaving bruises and beating for no reason. Spanking is open handed and usually done more to shock than actually harm

Where do you live?

We all think we would be the perfect parent

And it’s all well and good saying you would smack them under certain circumstances but you didn’t have any and the practice is much easier than the theory. Plus love gets in the way, pesky strong, amazing emotion that love for your small children, nothing like it. Nothing, nothing prepares you for it.

It’s perfectly possible to be a firm, effective parent without resorting to physical violence.

There is also the flip side parents who swear at and hit their child so their kids are scared shadows.

Some people are better parents than others like all things in life, some kids are easier than others. What works with one of your children doesn’t work with others (naughty step I am looking at you).

I’ve never hit our children, and had them completely under control with voice, yes a couple of times we had to leave because the countdown ran out, no long lasting damage. Only had to do that a couple of times.

You build trust with them, if they trust you do things for their best interests they don’t need to understand why they just need to accept it, once they get that rest is straightforward.

You’ve never had them you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what you would’ve done as a parent.

Ours are teenagers now, fun, kind, ambitious, one at college one doing GCSEs. They have mates they talk to and hang out with, but still tell us , talk to us for advice when they feel they need it, they don’t get into fights or exhibit any aggressive behaviour out the house, because they haven’t seen it from us . If you hit a small child who you are supposed to love more than anyone else, someone much smaller and weaker than you - what message does that send to a child? That violence is a way of getting things done? If your mum would hit you then surely it’s not so bad if you hit others? Yeah you know nothing about this. Hitting is never the answer.

Well firstly you don't have a clue what you'd do and I'm unsurprised you don't have kids. And pre planning hitting children makes you some kind of nutcase in my book. I hope you aren't planning children and just theoretically plan to hit them. I also wonder, are you a man?

"Blather on" ...that was unnecessary.

I think they made a very good point actually and suspect I'm not alone.

Your rude response was uncalled for.

I think the thread is being derailed by pedantry about what is gentle/permissive etc.

The op is clearly talking about kids who are never told off/corrected or given firm boundaries for behaviour.

These kids must be a nightmare to teach and I wonder how they maintain friendships if always must have their own way. They struggle in the real world, including now they are reaching the age where they’re in the workplace and an absolute nightmare to manage quite frankly.