20yo DD was home alone- 2 Proovia delivery came into house and stood over her until she transferred £60 into their own bank account- raging at response

You can be sarcastic all you want but OP didn't make DD aware of the delivery so DD wasn't expecting it

She also says DD swans in and out, she may well not have known Mummy had ordered a new table

It is entirely possible not to know a new table had been ordered. We don't even know whether it was a dining table or a side table or coffee table... OP just said table

(Also you making snarky comments about a Palace and then thinking 2 dining tables is normal 🤣)

Do you think that's what I wrote? Did you read it, or is that how you interpreted it?

@Kibble19 - The expectations on under 25s is so incredibly low because of that shite attitude that they need mummy or daddy to hold their hands. They can’t be expected to do too much - like pay a bill, go to the doctors themselves, to sign a contract with a company for a service. They can’t cook, don’t understand how to manage their time, can’t handle change, don’t know how to change a lightbulb, need their clothes ironed.

It’s ludicrous. What do they think happens? You hit that magical 25th year and suddenly function as an adult?

No one has said that an under 25 can't do or shouldn't be expected to do any of those things - talk about a straw man!

The OP is not complaining to the company because they asked her 20 year old daughter to iron some clothes or change a bloody lightbulb FGS!

She is complaining that two male delivery drivers delivered the parcel outside of the agreed scope of the contract and then forced her daughter who was not the contracted customer to do a bank transfer while standing over her and that her daughter was understandably intimidated.

It is in no way related to any of your examples.

And no, it's not magic that in the 25th year, young people are better equipped to function as adults - its basic biology that has been well understood for over 20 years!

The op is very clear her daughter was not expecting the delivery, with good reason as it had been scheduled for a different time, so no need to mention it to her daughter. That doesn’t at all mean her daughter doesn’t realise her mum is buying a table. It is a 2 person job to carry this table, so it’s decent sized. Unless you live in a palace and do not ever have casual chats with your mum who also lives there, you tend to be aware if there is no breakfast /family meals table or formal dining table or if you need a new one or if your mum is making a big purchase like that. Most houses only have two dining tables at most.

Editied to tag @Kibble19 as well

I am not the one being ridiculous about the age because my point is that the OPs daughter's age has no bearing on what the issue is - which is the unprofessional behaviour of the delivery drivers in acting outside of their contract and intimidating a young woman who was not their customer.

Let's not be so patronising, ridiculous and insulting in pretending they are children and their brain are not developed.

I am not pretending they are children, in fact, I quite clearly said that the OP's daughter was "not a child" but it is not patronising to point out that a 20 year old will not have the same reactions to a situation as someone aged 25 and over. It is medical fact that adolescents brains are not fully developed until they are 25. The prefrontal cortex is the last part of the brain to fully develop and that is the part that is responsible for decision making and planning, and therefore reactions in the situation outlined by the OP.

There is increasing recognition that 18-25 year olds are a distinct group that need specific approaches in different spheres of life. The minimum wage, student finance, the criminal justice system, SEND provision and support for care leavers all treat under 25's (under 21 for minimum wage) differently to those who are 25 and over!

As for what 20 years olds can do - yes, of course they can be independent - as I said, I owned my own house by then and was working in a professional environment while attending uni, but the majority of 20 year olds still live at home with their parents and many are still in education, apprenticeships, training or entry level roles.

Even owning my own house at that age, having been well prepared by my parents for independence, there were still unexpected situations that came up where I needed their advice and support - there is no way that parents can prepare their children for every single unexpected and unanticipated eventuality.

Not having prepared her daughter for this particular eventuality is not some failing on the OPs part. Nor does it excuse in any way the behaviour of the delivery drivers which, as you yourself acknowledged

But DD didn't know it was expected because OP didn't bother to give her a heads up

The reading comprehension challenges are strong on this thread. I have only skimmed it and still feel like shouting It’s a TABLE! she didn’t KNOW she had to pay until they were inside!! She took the delivery because it was furniture for her mum!! The delivery didn’t come at the time arranged!!

and surely all these posters saying my omniscient omnipotent daughter wouldn’t have accepted it… in real life if they had bought a table, and their dd knew mum had bought a table, which she probably did as tables arent books or socks and you don’t usually have 10 of them, then delivery men arrived with the table you had bought and your dd knew you were expecting, she’d say oh great thanks, bring it in! Not OI YOU! That table is one my mum ordered and addressed to her but she’s not here, off you fuck with it! No you can’t bring it in the door! What’s that you’ll take it back to the depot as rejected delivery and mum will be lucky to get it back in a month or ever? That’s totally fine she probably doesn’t even want it, just bought it for shits and giggles. Now put it back in the van and leave.

She didn’t know she had to pay 60…

OP's behaviour on here could be described as aggressive, it's certainly resorting to insults and character assassination because people aren't agreeing or are trying to clarify what happened

If she brought that attitude to Proovia (which she probably did) then I'm not surprised they kept trying to clarify the situation fully and then just said what they thought she wanted to hear to get her to shut up and leave them alone

If there really was a case where the money was taken incorrectly, I would expect Proovia to have refunded it and dealt with it their side because of the reputation damage otherwise

But we are not hearing from the woman who WAS there

We are hearing from a mother who's angry on behalf of her daughter

A daughter who apparently wouldn't have been happy being asked to take the parcel in if she'd known so could well be pissed off that her mother didn't warn her and that she had to pay so is exaggerating slightly

If someone is owed money legitimately, they are going to stand there and wait for it to be paid. Do you think shop staff are standing over you when they wait for you to pay or is that intimidating too?

Agree completely.

The expectations on under 25s is so incredibly low because of that shite attitude that they need mummy or daddy to hold their hands. They can’t be expected to do too much - like pay a bill, go to the doctors themselves, to sign a contract with a company for a service. They can’t cook, don’t understand how to manage their time, can’t handle change, don’t know how to change a lightbulb, need their clothes ironed.

It’s ludicrous. What do they think happens? You hit that magical 25th year and suddenly function as an adult?

The issue with non-functioning adults (excluding the bloody obvious exceptions) is usually that they’re a product of poor or inconsistent parenting.

The other poster talks about care leavers having help until age 25. That’s because they very frequently come from terrible backgrounds with absent parents, inconsistent care and/or issues like addiction in their home.

They don’t have that predictable, normal experience and therefore often don’t have the same chances as people who grow up at home. That shouldn’t apply to most people.

You think every woman who is intimidated by angry men are at fault because their parents didn't teach them better?

No, so we'll have to trust the woman it happened to who told her mother what happened. You don't know best just because it didn't happen to you and you weren't there. The woman who WAS there says they were angry from the outset, their anger was such she assumed her Mom had messed up and they stood over her whilst she transferred money
Do you really think that's acceptable behaviour from anyone? Add in their size, sex and number and it's not unreasonable for op to feel more vulnerable than she would at one equal sized angry woman.

I've just gone back through the OPs posts and I don't see anywhere where she has stated that her daughter is "my little child who is a girl".

She refers to her as a 20 year old girl, not child - which she is a legitimate way of referring to a young adult.

I suspect the company continuing to say that the OPs daughter was an adult was just in response to the OP talking about her daughter, so that they could potentially justify the charge, when the key point is that regardless of age, her daughter was not the customer with whom they had the contract.

Before reading this thread, I would have assumed that that response by the companies customer service representative would be unusual.

However, judging by the number of people on this thread who also seem keen to somehow excuse the behaviour of the delivery drivers and berate the OP based on the age of her daughter, then clearly while still incredibly odd and illogical, it wouldn't be unusual.

You are being completely ridiculous about the age.

A 20 year old, an under 25 year old, is just as adult as you and often more than many posters on here 😂

20+ year old can be fully trained and working medical professional , teachers, in charge of babies, of sick patients, or just driving heavy machinery or doing any adult thing any other adult does. The ONLY reason some professions don't have very young staff is because of the years of training needed, not the age in itself!

Let's not be so patronising, ridiculous and insulting in pretending they are children and their brain are not developed.

Or, if you genuinely believe they are, do campaign for marriage to be illegal under 25, age of sexual consent to be brought to a level of fully matured brain and so on

Sounds ridiculous? Yes, thought so.

A 20 year old is not a child, but the one in question is still @fanothetan ' child!

Young people's brains are not fully developed until they are 25 - there is a reason that care leavers are supported until they are 25 - it is because it is understood that as young adults, they may still need support to find their way through life which is what the OP is doing with her daughter.

Every young person is different. I owned my own house at that age but I would have still been intimidated by two grown men demanding I transfer them money money and would have almost definitely sought advice from my mom!

You said: "Of course, it's not acceptable to be intimidated and threatened, in or outside your own home, by anyone. That should not be tolerated, but that's not the point."

That is exactly the point - whether it is the OP's 20 year daughter, a 16 year old child or a neighbor who has kindly agreed to accept a delivery. None of them are the people that the courier company had an agreement with.

They undertook a delivery outside of everything that had been agreed:

• They turned up early
• They delivered to the third floor when delivery was arranged for the first floor without the permission of the customer
• They delivered even though the OP did not answer her phone, despite them saying that if they could not contact her, the delivery would be re-arranged.
• They proceeded to intimidate a young woman, who was not the customer who had agreed the contract, into transferring them money.

The age of the OPs daughter, is important for context but has absolutely no bearing on the whether the delivery drivers behaviour was at best unprofessional and at worst, potentially criminal!

quite

the complaint would be valid regardless of the "victim", a young woman or your husband, your elderly father, you teenage son.

Playing the "my little child who is a girl" card is distracting from the real issue.

I think the point isn't that your daughter is too young to make a transfer - the fight you should pick is that two men intimidated a lone woman (age is irrelevant) into transferring money into their accounts. Your DD was literally mugged. If I were in your shoes, I'd get my DD to say that and seek reimbursement or threaten to sue.

I was married with a mortgage at 20, definitely not a child.

Would I have been intimidated in these circumstances? Yes.

Would I still be intimidated in these circumstances many years later? Possibly.

Why the nit picking? Get a life

a 20 year old is not a child.

OP you are very rude to everyone, but if you are so confidently arguing and ranting against everyone, why haven't you taught your own children to manage such situations?

a 20 year old is not a child, could very well live alone, and deal with everything alone. It's complete parental fail to have not prepared her! She could have children by now!

Of course, it's not acceptable to be intimidated and threatened, in or outside your own home, by anyone. That should not be tolerated, but that's not the point.

A 20 year old is not a child, if the delivery men were 20 year old, would you accept "oh but he's just a child, so what he did was ok because he's a child". Of course not, so you can't have it both ways.