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Original poster

AIBU to feedback to school about teachers use of glottal stops

356 replies

TalomaPaith · 04/11/2025 21:31

Children at Dcs school are split into different groups for phonics.

Parents are sometimes invited to watch lessons. I observed a lesson by a teacher using glottal stops I.e Let'er instead of letter.

Would IBU to mention this?

OP posts:
YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:42

MayWelland · 05/11/2025 13:02

I’m not sure why this thread has riled me so much, and so I’m going to exercise some restraint and bugger off. (Or bugga off, if you are English).

I suppose my parting shot is that:

  • if you want your child to speak in a certain way, then that’s your right
  • you can and should reinforce your preferred way of speaking at home
  • should you wish to have a more uniform experience at school, that’s also your right - you can pick a school where there is less diversity in accent, dialect and speech patterns
  • but it’s entirely unacceptable to belittle someone and ask them to change how they speak when they are not teaching the child to spell incorrectly, they are just emphasising different parts of a word
  • this is classist, shaming and seeks to elevate one way of speaking as the right one.

closes Mumsnet, goes on being ‘wrong’ in my Northern Irish accent

@RaraRachael Reading your post, I'd think you say the word farm in a rhotic accent. The 'fahm' transcription is 'fam' (a like in cat).

@MayWelland , but it’s entirely unacceptable to belittle someone and ask them to change how they speak when they are not teaching the child to spell incorrectly, they are just emphasising different parts of a word
this is classist, shaming and seeks to elevate one way of speaking as the right one.

I don't think OP was belittling anyone, or being classist or shaming. She wants a teacher teaching her child to enunciate clearly, which means not using glottal stops. Speaking clearly is important for a teacher.

I was appalled at the poor grammar of one of the teachers at DC's school.
I know the teacher vaguely from schooldays - we have a similar accent and educational background. It was poor grammar, not accent.

I've had a colleague say they struggle to understand my accent, so I make an effort to speak more clearly. I don't get all uppity about it.

pterodactylpinky · 05/11/2025 13:40

TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:36

@pterodactylpinky I said I code switch. She said I don't know basic English. Double standards much? Do you use glottal stops?

I have already said I don’t.

queenmeadhbh · 05/11/2025 13:40

YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:06

@queenmeadhbh , I think I say paw, pour, poor and pore the same way unless the following word is a vowel. It's not a lack of clarity; they are homophones.

Your 3-year old has grown up hearing “waugh-dur” and waugh’ur” so that doesn't compare with a young child of early primary school age who hasn't.

So…my child learns by 3 that there are different possible pronunciations of the word L E T T E R.

op’s child learns this now, a bit older, due to exposure to someone who pronounces it differently. What’s the issue?
England is full of children who have to learn that in spite of how it sounds, farther has an “r” in it. Ireland is full of children who have to learn that in spite of how it sounds, “letter” has a t in it. What’s the difference?

Zov · 05/11/2025 13:39

You can't be serious! Shock

queenmeadhbh · 05/11/2025 13:36

Somethingontheroof · 05/11/2025 13:28

It's not a lack of clarity; they are homophones.

That depends entirely on accent. Pore and pour are homophones in my Irish accent, but the others aren’t.

I do find an English accent confusing on occasion, even though I have a lot of exposure to it via tv and radio. It’s not intrinsically clearer imho.
A lot you can understand from context of course, though I only recently learned on MN that Shaun the Sheep is a pun. I’d never have got that.

Show quote history

Yes, the assumption from RP speakers seems to be that is is “clearer” as well as “proper”. It’s really not. It’s just what they are used to, and are empowered to believe is “correct”.

me too re: Shaun! Not a pun in Ireland!

Original poster
TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:36

@pterodactylpinky I said I code switch. She said I don't know basic English. Double standards much? Do you use glottal stops?

OP posts:
UtterlyOtterly · 05/11/2025 13:33

The standard of spelling and punctuation at my Ds's primary school was so poor that I complained. Even signs on the classroom displays were incorrect.

I confess I was once that mother who marked a school letter in red pen and returned it with a Must Try Harder comment. The headmistress phoned to apologise and things did improve.

pterodactylpinky · 05/11/2025 13:31

TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:23

@MayWelland I find offensive being told I don't know the basics of English! I don't teach

The comments about your posts were factual.

Your attitude was utterly vile.

Original poster
TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:30

@queenmeadhbh glottal stop is complete omission of a sound, an elongated vowel is a change in length or sound

OP posts:
queenmeadhbh · 05/11/2025 13:28

YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:10

@queenmeadhbh , context. They probably learn father long before learning the comparative form of far.

None of this explains why these are not issues but different pronunciations of “letter” are.

Somethingontheroof · 05/11/2025 13:28

YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:06

@queenmeadhbh , I think I say paw, pour, poor and pore the same way unless the following word is a vowel. It's not a lack of clarity; they are homophones.

Your 3-year old has grown up hearing “waugh-dur” and waugh’ur” so that doesn't compare with a young child of early primary school age who hasn't.

It's not a lack of clarity; they are homophones.

That depends entirely on accent. Pore and pour are homophones in my Irish accent, but the others aren’t.

I do find an English accent confusing on occasion, even though I have a lot of exposure to it via tv and radio. It’s not intrinsically clearer imho.
A lot you can understand from context of course, though I only recently learned on MN that Shaun the Sheep is a pun. I’d never have got that.

MayWelland · 05/11/2025 13:28

You showed yourself up with that comment @TalomaPaith, but at least now we know what the thread was really about.

Cheerio

Maray1967 · 05/11/2025 13:27

TheAutumnalCrow · 04/11/2025 21:48

How DO phonics work with regional and local accents?? Always wondered that.

They work better ‘up North’ in some respects, at least.

Glass, grass - as in ass, not arse.

How do you teach glass pronounced glarse?

SunnySideDeepDown · 05/11/2025 13:25

How twattish of you, OP.

Original poster
TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:23

@MayWelland I find offensive being told I don't know the basics of English! I don't teach

OP posts:
MayWelland · 05/11/2025 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

that was deeply offensive OP and I feel for your students. Take some time to reflect

2024TN · 05/11/2025 13:20

Pistachiocake · 04/11/2025 21:47

I lived in Glasgow for a long time, and one side of my family are Scottish, and always found Scots would pronounce this very clearly, not missing a t sound. Which Scottish accent doesn't?

Show quote history

A person with a broad Dundonian accent would say “buh ur” and “woh ur” rather than “butter” and “water”.

Bumblebee72 · 05/11/2025 13:17

Definitely complain - you don't want them growing up sounding Northern!

ldnmusic87 · 05/11/2025 13:15

Wow.

TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:10

@queenmeadhbh , context. They probably learn father long before learning the comparative form of far.

Original poster
TalomaPaith · 05/11/2025 13:08

@NeverDropYourMooncup my degrees are on the wall in my study. I don't place too much value on Mumsnet unlike you. Have you heard of code switching?

OP posts:
YYYDlilah · 05/11/2025 13:06

@queenmeadhbh , I think I say paw, pour, poor and pore the same way unless the following word is a vowel. It's not a lack of clarity; they are homophones.

Your 3-year old has grown up hearing “waugh-dur” and waugh’ur” so that doesn't compare with a young child of early primary school age who hasn't.

MayWelland · 05/11/2025 13:02

I’m not sure why this thread has riled me so much, and so I’m going to exercise some restraint and bugger off. (Or bugga off, if you are English).

I suppose my parting shot is that:

  • if you want your child to speak in a certain way, then that’s your right
  • you can and should reinforce your preferred way of speaking at home
  • should you wish to have a more uniform experience at school, that’s also your right - you can pick a school where there is less diversity in accent, dialect and speech patterns
  • but it’s entirely unacceptable to belittle someone and ask them to change how they speak when they are not teaching the child to spell incorrectly, they are just emphasising different parts of a word
  • this is classist, shaming and seeks to elevate one way of speaking as the right one.

closes Mumsnet, goes on being ‘wrong’ in my Northern Irish accent

RaraRachael · 05/11/2025 12:57

Exactly @queenmeadhbh how do they teach the ar, or, ur type sounds when they're not pronounced? "This word is spelled farm but pronounced fahm" . I'm genuinely interested.

Thankfully I never had to teach phonics in England - much easier in Scotland.