AIBU to feedback to school about teachers use of glottal stops

It shows that there is a t sound in letter in a standard RP English accent. There is no “may” or “may not” about these standard transcriptions because they do not list all possible pronunciations in all possible accents of English speakers.

there is not a T when I say it but that is perfectly correct. lɛɾər.

Bye!

@Somethingontheroof , none of those used a glottal stop.

@queenmeadhbh , is your position that any other pronunciation of these words is incorrect and/or unclear?
I think you are unable to grasp that it shows that there is a t sound in 'letter', and that the r in 'farther' may or may not be sounded.

I don't care if someone says farther as farver, but I'd mind if my child's teacher did, just like I'd mind if they said shjremf or bockle.

sorry, QED what exactly? You’ve just stated the phonetic transcriptions in standard Received Pronunciation of the words letter and father to prove….what? We know that’s how a standard English accent would pronounce them, our disagreement is that that is the only acceptable way to pronounce them.

is your position that any other pronunciation of these words is incorrect and/or unclear?

for example: lɛɾər ? Or ˈfaːrðər ?

This link is for water, not letter, but you can hear two British speakers use a glottal stop instead of the t sound, while the Irish speakers pronounce the r sound at the end of the word. (Most of the Americans do too I’d think, though I didn’t listen to them all.)

https://forvo.com/word/water/

I think the " "essex " accent you refer to may have been the speech brought in with the incoming Londoners over the years, But there's a lot of difference between basildon and north rural Essex accents for example.

Strangely enough my Essex born and bred son was told at uni that he sounded " posh"

@queenmeadhbh , let·ter [ˈlɛtə], far[fɑː]
Clear.

UK /ˈfɑː.ðər/ US /ˈfɑːr.ðɚ/
QED.

I’m with you and I think it would sound mocking to even try. If an English person was having issues understanding me so i imitated their accent by doing the long vowels and dropping the Rs etc, it would sound like I was taking the piss.

You are still not grasping that saying leaving out the “t” in “letter” is “incorrect” but leaving out the “r” in “farther” is “correct” is a value judgement on different accents. Your insistence that it is to do with clarity is not justified.

Sorry @YYYDlilah. I misunderstood so. I’d personally find it very difficult to change my accent like that, but it might be okay for a few words.

@Somethingontheroof , I understood it @Somethingontheroof . It wouldn't be a problem for me to sound the Rs. I'd need to remember to do it consistently, that's all.
I wouldn't see it as being different to something like saying 'isn't it' instead of 'innih'.

As I pp, the comment I got was about vowels not consonants. Not as easy to correct.
I don't think of certain accents being right or wrong.

@queenmeadhbh , I would enunciate more clearly, and was asked would I sound my Rs if asked. It would depend who asked and the context.
The example I was thinking of was something more like saying path with a long a not a short one.

@LittleMG , who's threatening you? (Shuh thah be 'Ouse freh'nin ya?'?)

What's the point of the exercise? Why are parents invited to observe?
I think teachers have enough on without parents observing as well.

Some accents use a glottal stop instead of the t sound.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chcjHwWwVxQ

Some accents (rhotic ones) pronounce the r sound at the end.

As someone with a pronounced Essex accent this threat is so patronising and offensive.

I don't think the OP's example is very clear. Probably should have been "le-uh" if she was emphasising the glottal stop.

By the way some people would pronounce it exactly as it's written so "let-ter" not "let-uh" because there's an r at the end.

Ummmm how are we supposed to pronounce ‘letter’ if not ‘let-uh’?

I am sitting here saying ‘letter’ over and over like a plonker (plonk-uh).

That’s what I thought you meant you would do, if a colleague said that they did not understand you well because you did not pronounce any Rs. Did you not mean that?

You said that, if a colleague couldn’t understand you, you’d start pronouncing the r’s that you usually don’t, @YYYDlilah.
That does seem a bit over the top.
ETA I suspect you misunderstood the question?

@queenmeadhbh , if you are serious that you would start pronouncing Rs in words if someone didn’t understand you, then that is completely unhinged behaviour. Arr you going any farrtherrr up the road? If you’d usually say “ah u going fahthuh” etc?
You are coming across as nuts.

I (Southern accent) taught children with Northern accents. In phonics I adapted my speech to theirs for learning specific sounds (I found u difficult) but I also talked about how I learned to talk in a different place so I said grass with a longer 'a' sound than they did. They hear different accents on TV so it's not too difficult for them to understand.

You’re not accepting that “clear” is subjective. Nor that whether or not you “agree”, a glottal
stop is simply a feature of some accents.

if you are serious that you would start pronouncing Rs in words if someone didn’t understand you, then that is completely unhinged behaviour. Arr you going any farrtherrr up the road? If you’d usually say “ah u going fahthuh” etc?

@queenmeadhbh , I I have a mild regional accent. You have assumed that my accent is RP.

if a colleague said they couldn’t understand you because you weren’t pronouncing your Rs, would you? No.
Yes. I would. Said colleague has English as a third language and, other than accent, speaks clearly. The issue wasn't with consonants.

glottal stops and non-rhoticism are both simply pronunciation features. Whether the listener finds them “clear” or not is subjective.

Agree with non-rhoticism, strongly disagree about glottal stops.

Enunciating clearly does not mean “not using glottal stops” any more than it means “pronouncing the R in farther”.

if a colleague said they couldn’t understand you because you weren’t pronouncing your Rs, would you? No.

glottal stops and non-rhoticism are both simply pronunciation features. Whether the listener finds them “clear” or not is subjective.

Shaun the sheep definitely not a pun to me. In fact I've only found this out today.

@YYYDlilah yes I am a rhotic speaker. I used fahm for farm as an example of how the word sounds to me when said by a lot of English people. Cat would have a shorter a sound.

If this teacher is the only person in these children’s lives who will model language to them then yes I would complain. But they will be hearing different adults speak all day long. English children don’t get Irish accents from having one Irish teacher. And you don’t often see families who have regional/colloquial accents and one super posh child because their infants teacher was super posh.
I understand why it makes sense to pronounce things properly (especially in the south east where I’m from because we are on an accent spectrum ranging from The Crown to Eastenders) but I’m not sure it actually makes much difference to the outcome of the child’s accent