AIBU to feedback to school about teachers use of glottal stops

That is incorrect. In Norwich (Norfolk) the accent includes the glottal stop. That is just one area of the UK I know about, so I'm sure there are more.

I think @queenmeadhbh is right, though I would put it slightly differently

The argument is whether a glottal stop is a feature of accent and dialect, or not. You’ve said that you think it isn’t @YYYDlilah. That’s absolutely your call, but it is unsupported by significant evidence, not just in what I’ve shared above but a tonne of other peer-reviewed evidence.

Of course, evidence is also up for debate and so there may be some evidence which says that it is lazy, but I’m yet to find it.

My view is that the glottal stop is still stigmatised, and the impact of the stigma is significant, unfair and long-lasting

isnt this whole argument because you say that saying water, letter, butter, with a glottal stop is incorrect? And didn’t you say that you wouldn’t want someone who pronounced f with a “v” sound teaching your children?

you then go round in circles saying that these are not features of accent but lack of clarity/enunciation and that is where you are wrong.

@queenmeadhbh , Might be the audio quality on my device.

I have already said that insisting certain accents are correct and others are not correct is classist and discriminatory.
I have not said that certain accents are correct and others are not.

there may be something amiss with how you are decoding sounds as that is a definite tap, and example 25 on the water link is a clear glottal stop. If you click through to that speaker you can hear the glottal stop on his pronunciation of “butter” “Scotland” and “not” as well.

I have already said that insisting certain accents are correct and others are not correct is classist and discriminatory. It is classist to call standard speech correct and non-standard speech features such as glottal stops incorrect. You said did you not that you do not want people who speak a certain way to teach your children. There’s the discrimination. PP references the Sutton trust report on accent and social mobility which explains very clearly the impact of this.

The example didn't sound like flapping.
Explain why you accuse me of being classist and discriminatory.

Couldn’t agree more.

Yes, it is. Middle consonant is a voiced flap.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapping

Tbh I think YOU are missing the context. I hate arguing with strangers on the internet, as we both clearly have more important things to do than be annoyed with someone we’ve never met and are never likely to meet but, since we’re here….

Firstly, the OP, who flounced after her horrible, nasty comment that showed her true colours (and it’s since been deleted, but for those who wondered, she insinuated that someone who disagreed with her on glottal stops was actually on benefits, so that’s… nice) was clear that the le-uh word was not being taught/coded/instructed in phonics.

Secondly, your argument is that the glottal stop is poor enunciation. I’m arguing that it’s not. It’s part of regional dialect. (And to be clear, I don’t use glottal stops and don’t actually love the sound of them, so I have no skin in that game).

The reason I’m being so vociferous is that I do have a non-RP accent: I’m Northern Irish living in England and have experienced consistent and quite nasty accent bias. The idea that there is a ‘correct’ accent has consistently been debunked by researchers and linguists, and yet it persists. And as you can see from the Sutton Trust report, the effects on social mobility of this type of bias are debilitating and quite sad.

Your argument above that rhotic accents are fine but glottal stops are poor enunciation, not accent, have been debunked above.

Of course. At your DC's school, parents are invited to watch and ultimately make judgements on the lessons observed, which isn't allowed, but you (individually) happen to have QTS, so the whole thing is fine and I must be wrong.

@queenmeadhbh , that is not lɛɾər.

Here’s lɛɾər

https://voca.ro/167qdh4f7Nb0

Come, now, that’s not what I said.

@MayWelland , you are saying that lɛɾər is a correct pronunciation of letter?

I hear a T sound in #25.

She’s not.

Unless you disagree with researchers at Cambridge who found that what laypersons dismiss as “sloppy” pronunciation actually follows complex constraint hierarchies maintained consistently across speakers, regions, and generations, showing far more linguistic sophistication than random “sound-dropping.”

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/english-today/article/abs/perceptions-of-tglottalling-among-adolescents-in-south-east-england/F2F4FB1DB3D52CDF80F9240C7558DF59

It's usually done when appropriate to make a point, not when the effect is to completely undermine one.

You’re right about the 25th as well - sounds Ulster to me, like how my husband says it, with a glottal stop in the middle.

Because it’s only correct if it appears on forvo.com?!! you know that is not a full validated list of all possible ways to say words, it’s just an example bank?

in any case, the American pronunciation is pretty close to lɛɾər - just slightly less tapped on the middle consonant.

on the water link a PP posted, number 6 is exactly the way I say it.

if you’re saying that only accents featured on forvo.com are acceptable, then you’ve really just lost hold on reality.

On class and discrimination: insisting that certain accents are correct and others incorrect is classist. It doesn’t matter what you think of me - value judgements on accents are inherently discriminatory, particularly as you are saying that you don’t want people with certain speech features to teach your children.

@Somethingontheroof , #5 is a glottal stop. The others aren't.

@queenmeadhbh , I disagree and believe your position is classist and discriminatory.
I have no idea what class you are, or why it would be discriminatory.
You have no idea what class I am or where I am from.

You are saying that lɛɾər is a correct pronunciation of letter. Add it to How to pronounce letter in English - Definition and synonyms of letter in English

you: this phonetic transcription shows that pronouncing a letter with a “t” sound is correct. QED.
me: there is not a “t” sound when I say letter, but that is still correct.
you: something about a dead horse.

i think you believe that the standard transcription is the only correct way to say it. In which case, that’s where I disagree and believe your position is classist and discriminatory.

none of those used a glottal stop
https://forvo.com/word/water

I’m very much prepared to be corrected @YYYDlilah, but what about the fifth speaker and the twenty-fifth?🤔 Have I got this wrong? There isn’t a glottal stop in water where I am so I’m prepared to be told I’m not hearing it ‘right’, but they sound like glottal stops to me.

there is not a T when I say it but that is perfectly correct. lɛɾər.
You're flogging a dead horse with that one.