Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

I agree with your confusion re "one mans truth is another mans propaganda"

I think the alternate form, " one mans truth is another mans lie" works better. But this statement has issues too.

Because not all propaganda is lies. And at the same time, truth is supposed to be absolute.

And I think with subjects such as knife crime, the truth often can't actually be known.

Yes of course, police data etc is true, and is published, but we can never know for sure how well anti knife crime campaigns work. For sure, a campaign can show a reduction in recorded data, truth, but there will always be interpolation required for things such as lives saved by a campaign.

I am not referencing any PP here when I suggest this, but it's this interpolation part that conspiricists latch onto. They say "you do not know for sure, you made it up, you guessed, so it is not true"

My head hurts now. But seriously. propaganda is an armchair interest of mine. I have also debated a lot of flat earthers online, and the " one mans truth...." line is a classic gaslighting technique.

I have screenshots of posts saying all these things that have not been taken down.

I don't understand what you mean.

One man’s truth is another man’s propaganda.

This isn't the subject of my post, my posting history or this thread.

I don't even really know what you're talking about as you haven't made it clear in relation to anything. You just sound very angry that I have posted the truth.

I didn't see those threads but I initially thought possible MH until it was reported that there were two attackers and then I wondered if it was terrotism. From recent history those two outcomes would be the most likely. And didn't discuss with anyone except briefly with OH. It's not worth making conclusions about any ongoing investigation - recent history shows how some people can jump to the wrong conclusions.

Sadly now see that the suspect may be linked to other offences.

First they came for Muslims.

Then they came for 'illegals'.

Then they came for legal migrants.

Now it's second generation immigrants.

If anyone thinks they are safe from the supremacists they are nuts.

They will turn on all of you.

Do you need me to list white British born mass murderers with severe MH problems @Savemydrink?

The UK has a MH crisis and a male violence problem and those with a racist agenda are exploiting this to sow even more fear and division. Pretending this is a race problem is wrong. It is a UK problem.

I noticed.

I notice it a lot.

If we accept your premise that these people had no discernible mental health issues, other than a blind hatred of people from the UK, then perhaps we need to dig more deeply into the question of why those people might have ended up hating the UK so much - the country where their parents proactively chose to build their lives.

Considering most of the criminals on my list (earlier post) had no discernible mental health issues, other than a blind hatred of innocent men/women/children of the United Kingdom, I would say the racist accusations you are so ready to hand out are aimed at the wrong people.

You might want to consider that we may have a worrying problem with a lack of mental health resources. Because we do.

Ignoring racism will not cure this problem.

Away with your Scolding middle class voices nonsense. Reductive, patronising rubbish. There are plenty MC racists. And plenty of non racist working class people like me.

If posters don't like their racism being challenged, they shouldn't post racist shite. Being silent in the face of racism does no one any favours.

Well, after that massive sigh of relief you undoubtedly had, on hearing this person was a British national, you might want to consider that we may have a worrying problem with 2nd generation immigrants who wish to commit mass murder on the country that took in their parents.

Shouting the R word will not cure this problem.

Daylight is the best disinfectant, maybe taking a closer look at the parents of these criminals might clarify things.

What has any of that got to do with my post?

Who exactly is claiming that British people have (or should have) a free pass to commit mass murder?

He appears to be mentally ill. Perhaps we need to provide better treatment for people with mental illnesses.

I didn't post, but I sure was confused. There were a group of perpetrators/2 acting together/a lone attacker, they shouted "allua akbar" (sp?)/get rid of the demons/were silent, the perpetrators escaped/were arrested/were dead. I read or heard all of these, no wonder people were getting it wrong.

Well here are some more facts for you

Lee Rigby killers. UK born
Southport child murder. UK born
Manchester Arena bomber UK born
London bridge attack UK born
Shoe bomber. UK born
7/7 bombers UK born
Huntingdon Stabber UK born

Being UK born is not a free pass to commit mass murder on the streets, trains, planes, bridges, concert halls of this country.

I didn't post earlier but I thought the perpetrator was someone with a serious mental health problem and possibly also a cannabis user.

As for travelling by train I still think it is safest way to travel - most deaths or injuries on the railway are of people taking their own lives. Think of the number killed or injured on the roads each year.

I hope other posters can see that you haven’t even bothered to read my posts properly or you are deliberately misrepresenting them.

WTF?!!!

I've just seen my post has been deleted. What on earth for?

Are we not allowed to mention even the existence of trolls on MN now?

I made not the slightest attempt to identify any. From what I can remember, I just reminded people that they are here and some seemed to have targeted that thread.

Oh, and was generically sympathetic to ordinary MNers who'd been caught up in the frenzy.

Was that a deletion error, MNHQ? I haven't even had an email about it, which I think are automatically generated? (It's not like I get deleted much, so not sure.)

The initial thread was dreadful, the one before there were any details about the attacker. So many people saying that this had to be illegal immigrants, one person even said that we should bomb the small boats crossing the channel. When it was announced that two British born black men had been arrested they went quiet for a while and then it turned into ‘well they aren’t really British are they’.

It was dreadful, however, I do see why HQ didn’t shut it down. If they had then there would have just been another thread. But I do think they should have come onto the thread and reminded people not to be twats.

And racial discrimination is still unlawful. Why don’t white boys from deprived backgrounds deserve a chance too? If it is an initiative to combat poverty, why would you seek to exclude white boys that live in deprived areas? What about mixed race boys?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490?app-referrer=deep-link

Tundeira Today 11.07

Diversity isn’t restricted to ethnic diversity. Those schemes try to attract people from more deprived backgrounds too. Those complaining are from more middle class backgrounds. They say the schemes don’t pick up enough white working class boys and favour ethnic minorities so they should be abolished.

So the end result will be the maintenance of the status quo. White middle class people who come from high-achieving backgrounds will get most of the places. Some posters pointing out that there are usually a number of these internship schemes at the companies that offer them didn’t seem to convince these mums that their sons still have sufficient opportunity to get good jobs if they are good enough. You have at least one scheme that’s open to everyone and then others that target specific groups.