Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

@Glistening

Just saw one of the survivors saying she doubts she will ever be able to get on a train again. No-one has died (so far) but lives have been destroyed for sure.

I'm sure sadly that's the case...we seem to have ended up with people terrorised but because of the tight definition of terrorism in UK law this is not (so far at least) deemed to be a terrorist attack....

I'm not sure a lot of the victims will appreciate the distinction....

There are enough crazy white people out there (I’m white, but not crazy) for me to never assume anything.

Those threads were dreadful in parts, but accusing people who assumed that it was a terrorist attack based on the initial reports of racism is also ridiculous.

Of course an attack on multiple people on a transport system brings to mind terrorist attacks. We've had them before haven't we? Someone I was at university with was killed on 7/7.

Because there was no political or religious motive. Or at least we can assume that or they would be saying it was a terrorist attack.

This has been explained multiple times. For it to be an act of terror there has to be some political motivation, a cause behind it.

Yes OP, you are so much better than those awful people. This post has definitely put them all in their place. Well done.

What is the motive? Who is he trying to influence to advance what cause?

i agree how is this not a terror attack??

Ah, I had been following the shooting of Charlie Kirk in the US, in which at least one innocent person was arrested and then released before the killer's family dobbed him in to the police.

So I didn't assume two arrests meant two perpetrators.

Whenever there's a big emerging news story, we know there will be more information available in the following days.

I'm not emergency services or so or otherwise involved, so don't have to rush to do anything. I can hold on a day or two.

Of course I too have a mental list of "Well it could be X, it could be Y, it could be Z." But I know that I don't know, and prefer to wait for the fuller information.

(In other areas I'm definitely a "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" personality, so I've had to teach myself to do this.)

Terrorism has a political motive.

Being crazy or obsessed with violence eg Nicholas Prosper, Axel Rudakubana doesn't equal terrorism.

absolutely this. I’ve seen so many posts recently calling those worried about mass immigration and asylum hotels flag shaggers and similar.
It’s an important conversation to be had and it’s not racist, bigoted, xenophobic, intolerant, islamophobic or any other type of phobia to want to talk about it.

There’s been no outrage about the white guy who has been jailed for his extremism and racist hatred towards Muslims - he build a bomb factory with illegal explosives like white phosphorus that can’t even be used in war… WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE PEOPLE

Also, loads were saying the two men were shouting Allah but…not one single credible source. Turns out they’re Russian bots. Embarrassing.

The fact that you've said 'next time' means that it's not a case of if, but rather when. And there absolutely will be more of these events and everyone with opinions that don't sit well with you personally should just be quiet, turn the other cheek and not pay any notice of WHY these events happen and WHY they're becoming more frequent.

I think it's safe to say that I feel like there are 3-4 Lee Rigby-style events per week now. That's an opinion I have held for years, but it's considered 'far-right' and 'bigoted' to air it. We don't dare destroy the narrative.

@Bagsintheboot I think looking down on people and telling them off causes more division. Listening to people and factually discussing their fears and setting them straight is what actually changes things and improves community cohesion.

• conspiracy theories about the govt and police suppressing information
• conspiracy theories about Muslims plotting to take over the govt
• saying "it's just part of their culture, black men smoke weed and they get paranoid"
• talking about deporting "the usual third world suspects"

These are fairly easily disproved and a calm discussion where people can say what is scaring them and look at the facts is urgently needed.

We have so many issues at play and understandably those with less access to information are very confused. People on all sides are vulnerable to manipulation by social media :

Immigration as a whole
Immigrant hotels and perceived risk
Grooming scandal and inquiry
Palestine protests

We need to be able to discuss these issues and how they play our in our communities, and have everyones voices heard. I am sure your stance makes you feel great about yourself as you look down on those nasty little racists but you are doing nothing to help the communities where they like side by side with ethnic minorities who are terrified of Reform gaining power.

I didnt post and I didnt jump to the conclusion it wasa terrorist attack.

Maybe a few years ago I would have but stabbings and attacks have become so common.

I jumped to 'Mental Health issues'
Ive not follows the story closely but it reminded me of the Ukraine woman who was stabbed on a train in North Carolina in August.

Just because its not terrorism on this occasion doesn't mean terrorism isnt an issue.

The threads were awful. I posted that just because two people were arrested, it didn’t mean two had committed the crime and was totally ignored. Didn’t fit the narrative.

It's depressing the way the Right Wing has captured the national narrative to the extent that the first thing to happen after any awful incident is a bunfight over WAS IT AN IMMIGRANT?!

I commented on one poster on that thread who has been on a number of threads posting bizarre 'left wing' positions (Lets hope it turns out to be a white man and the government should suppress information to protect certain communities) I am not a conspiracy theorist but I definitely felt there were bad actors trying to whip up division on that thread.

I didn’t post but yes I also made an assumption of a terrorist attack on the basis of the info at that time that TWO people had been arrested.

I'm only "scolding" the racist, prejudiced voices who jump to false conclusions with no basis and who whip up hatred and division.

If you really think posting in the vein of the examples I gave is a constructive, helpful way to address highly complex social issues then I don't know what more I can say.

YANBU, OP - those threads were absolutely grim and among the worst I’ve seen on MN. I absolutely believe that there are bad actors on here and other social media sites who are deliberately trying to fan the flames of ethnic/religious tension, and we mustn’t let them succeed.

Perhaps the most urgent question to arise from this appalling event is why so many people, and it seems particularly men from black and other ethnic minority backgrounds, are not receiving the help/treatment they need from mental health services.

@Bagsintheboot where have I suggested that? Why the argumentative condescending tone. I have not made any comment on any thread about this, except the one above.
Scolding middle class voices are not helping ethnic minorities at all, they are deepening the divide and creating hatred, exactly like the racists do.

Because there is a legal definition of terrorism in the Terrorism Act 2000: "the use or threat of violence, designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

The key word here is "purpose". The violent act must be for advancing an agenda or cause. If this test is not met, then it is not terrorism. This implies that the act must be planned. A random act of violence carried out by a schizophrenic does not meet this test.

I didnt see the threads tbh but I can still judge anyone that was being racist

Also judge participants of that long running anti labour thread that started super soon after labour got into power

Tasered for being black is a new low. We are also a mixed family and I fear for sons/grandsons.