Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

We were never told it was being treated as a terrorist incident as far as I’m aware. At one point we were told that counter terror police were providing assistance, but not that they actually thought it was terrorism.

All violent crime is a terrorising activity, including domestic violence. There is a clear difference between terrorising activity and terrorism. This was not the latter.

I think it is still a bit soon for any speculation. We were told yesterday that it was being treated as a terrorist incident, but then later we were told that it wasn't one. This is simply because we seem to define terrorism as having to have some sort of organised ideological foundation - political or religious. I am not sure that holds water. It was certainly a terrorising activity, which begs the question whether our definition is too narrow.

I don’t know how to vote. I think YABU to expect anyone with blatantly racist views to reflect on their words. I live in NI. We have peace. But the real views in some people’s heads which often make it onto the anonymous cesspool that is social media are very scary indeed. There are people out there who thrive on hatred. Pathetic Neanderthals who need to feel part of a gang to give their lives meaning. It could take generations to make a dent in that sort of ignorance.

@Randomlygeneratedname its because to be officially an act of terror there has to be an ideology behind it. Someone in a mental health crisis, or even an angry rampage isn’t terrorism in terms of the official definition.

That definition is important as it guides the types of resources and response, such as the threat level being increased

The legal definition of terrorism requires the act (of which there are a fixed number of ‘acts’ for the purpose of this definition) to be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. You don’t have to be ‘from a different place or of a certain religion’. You can be from anywhere and be trying to advance any political, religious, racial or ideological cause. Until we have concrete evidence about the persons motivation for this attack, it cannot be considered to be terrorism. People being scared to live their normal lives is a consequence of terrorism, but you cannot use this to define whether an act is terrorism or not because it can’t be measured and different crimes and actions will affect everyone differently. Witnessing or being involved in any crime can change the way you live your life.

I 100% agree. Appalling

Well it’s not an unreasonable line of thought you had, because for two people to be involved suggests some kind of agenda or wider group. Any profiler would say the same.

You forgot to consider the impact of social exclusion, including racial discrimination (Rudakabana). Rudakabana is autistic and obsessions are a common component of autism. Unfortunately his was violence. It is also possible that as first-generation immigrants his parents did not know how to get Rudakabana the help he needed. That’s difficult enough for people who’ve always lived here and have an extensive social network to advise them.

I didn't post anything. When I heard two people had been arrested, my heart sank thinking it must be terror related and imagining the things that would be said about certain communities.

I had dinner with some friends last night and got a lot of "let me guess, I bet they were..."

They were disappointed to learn their prejudices were wrong. These are reasonably bright people, who I've liked and respected for a long time. Something has gone very badly wrong recently 😪

Two things struck me about that post - a vocal Jewish Mumsnetter who has claimed on other threads she doesn’t hate Muslims….. openly convinced the attacker was a Muslim, accompanied by vile, racist comments about muslims

secondly the truly mindless football fans comments. As a Liverpool fan I’ve had that sort of bollocks all my life and it gave me the rage.

Sure but the PP stated that ‘he was suffering delusions’ - sounded like they had read that somewhere. I was asking where they’d seen that. Unless they’re just speculating.
Which would be ironic.

The racists have gone very quiet on my local Facebook pages after some disgusting comments after the event. I must have thankfully missed the comments you're referring to on here

Given the way that the attack unfolded, I think that marauding terrorist attack seemed like a reasonable assumption. The emergency services felt the same.

But I don't understand the desire to attempt to fill in the blanks in such a rush on social media.

The majority of them won’t reflect - to do so requires the ability to think and that seems to be a quality sadly lacking in many. Much easier to leap to conclusions, salivating and apportioning blame before any facts are known.
What a sad way to live life

I agree. Also, not once did MNHQ go onto the threads to calm things down. They should have.

Oh everything is Khan’s fault. A Muslim will maybe shoplift on the other side of the country and posters will still find a way to blame Khan.

I didn't speculate.
I thought it would either be terror or mental health related, both were reasonable possibilities. The fact that there were 2 arrests added some weight to the terrorism hypothesis.
It was never likely to be football fans though as the first few pages of that thread seemed to be pushing.

Those threads were absolutely awful and too many posters were proudly sharing their racist views and Muslim hate. Funny how the popularity of the threads died down once it turned out it wasn’t a Muslim migrant.

The stories that some posters came up with to justify their hate was crazy. Awful awful people.

That's something that will come up at trial, not initial reporting. Quite obviously, someone's mental health status is private unless it is part of their defence.

However, eye witnesses say he was shouting "kill me" to the police, which isn't exactly the hallmark of a balanced mind. Neither is stabbing 10 strangers.

Has it been confirmed that he was suffering mental health issues? Where is that please, only seen the BBC latest saying he’s been charged but doesn’t mention motivation.

It was disgusting. People sitting behind the anonymity of the internet spouting evil and toxic crap.
Drives me mad when people come up with theories and speculation like that too.
I posted yesterday morning that thoughts should be with the injured, their families and those on that train rather than speculating. Someone jumped on that saying I was trying to deflect. The thread was full by the time I saw that and a lot more information had been made public. Ridiculous.

I appreciate that MNHQ doesn't want to be accused of preventing free speech, but those two threads were horrific. It horrified me that so many people were stirring up hatred to such an awful degree. The overt racism was horrible to see, and there should have been many, many deletions if Mumsnet police were to police their own rules.

I don't think the police did give out wrong information. A terrorist attack has to involve committing acts of violence in support of a cause. The police must therefore have ascertained that ghis attack didn't involve a cause.

I have seen a lot of questions around this. Terrorism does not mean inciting terror. All violent events incite terror in one way or another. Terrorism definition (UK) is;

as the use or threat of one or more [of the] actions [listed below], and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

For more details: Terrorism | The Crown Prosecution Service