New allegations against Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor

Possibly the girls, but Andrew made a point to Emily Maitliss about remembering the date because going to Pizza Express was a very unusual occurrence in his life.

And, as far as I know, no one has come forward and said something along the lines of, yes he was a regular, so could well have been in that night.

But he explicitly says in the newsnight interview that he rarely/never went there

He is an odious little man who has used his royal privilege to avoid scrutiny. Personally, I'm glad that is being stripped away and I hope that leads to more of the truth coming out. Now he is no longer royal, his protections in law are no longer there and he is a much easier person to pursue.
I think we've probably only seen the tip of the iceberg on his behaviour. People like this who get away with abusive behaviour tend to think they're untouchable and offend at will.
On the subject of his daughters, I think they need to be allowed to process how they react and feel in private. They are in no way to blame for what their father has done. In fact, they are victims now of the fallout and having to process what a monster their father is with the public eye on them. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
They may well feel denial, I believe that's fairly normal. The man they knew as their father doesn't really exist anymore but it's far easier for us to see and accept that from the outside than for people close to him.

Who can actually remember which exact date their child had a birthday party 20 years ago?
You might remember the party, you might remember who was there, unless you held the party on actual birthday every year you aren't going to remember nor remember the time.

Also these are high society people, they aren't exactly going to go running to the press to have their name in the papers or risk the papers miss quoting, changing context of what they say.

Living in the area, its possible that Andrew and the girls were regular visitors to Pzza express. Maybe the staff couldn't pinpoint a particular day thay they visited

It's really easy to say that when you haven't experienced it.

Most children of those sorts of people have been emotionally and psychologically abused by the perpetrator and extracting themselves from it is very, very hard. And much much harder when in the public eye.

It wasn't just a random older woman though was it.

The older woman is Ghislaine Maxwell convicted sex trafficker of underage girls currently serving 20 years in a US federal prison. The photographer is Jeffrey Epstein, convicted of procuring an underage girl in 2008, served 24 months prison time. Later arrested yet again, and charged and died in prison before getting to court. And the prince with his arm around the waist of a trafficked underage girl.

2 people in their 40s unrelated to the young girl of 17 have brought her from America to London to meet a prince and buy her clothes. Lots obviously wrong with that photo - very damming imo.

How do you know she was happy? Because she was smiling?

It's fairly obvious there would have been boys as well as girls - why else would Mandleson have been interested? I can't see that makes it any worse, unless of course we're talking much younger.

My suspicion is that this isn't about the sex. I'm not sure the Royal Family would be overly bothered, after all the Queen paid off VG and allowed Andrew to continue as a member of the Royal family. There is absolutely a sense of a birthright to that kind of thing.

I reckon it's more political and money related - something involving state secrets, money for access, dodgy deals etc. It's known that Epstein kept evidence which he used to blackmail people. I imagine that is what's going to come out. Goodness knows what.

The photo was hardly damning, Andrew with his arm round a happy looking, smiling young woman, with an older woman smiling in the background.

Richard powerful men (royals, presidents, bunsiness men) raping young teens with their dicks in private parties and islands. And the only one in jail is a WOMAN.

Think about it. This circle, they look after each other. Like teflon. Nothing sticks. But the woman involved can be thrown to the wolves. She has no protection from the group. (Not saying she should, but the rapists walk free)

And even if they have suspicions mother's always want to believe the best of their children. I'm sure she was aware he was a womaniser (and an idiot). I don't think she would have known how far he had gone in his sexual predilections, hardly over dinner conversations.

This is exactly it.

Without that photo, she would have been a random girl making accusations against someone very powerful, and it would have gone nowhere. The photo made it impossible for people not to take notice. The fact he allowed it to be taken seemed strange to me for a while- but I suppose it speaks to his sheer arrogance of how well protected he was, it wouldn't have occurred to him it could have been used many years later to incriminate him.

I would. The Americans shielded that woman who ran over and killed the teenage boy. Yet she refused to face the consequences and scarpered. No subpoena for her and she killed somebody.

Oh, no, that's not fair! I can't agree with that at all. I don't believe in making children pay for the sins of the fathers. E&B seem like incredibly nice, normal women - which is a real testament to them, considering who their parents are. I think they are like their paternal grandparents or their other uncles. Why on earth should they suffer even more because of what their dad did, which isn't their fault and which they had NOTHING to do with? What you suggest would be the very height of unfairness.

It's not worse, it's just more. It's not possible to draw a line under ABW's involvement while more comes out about it

It wasn't a British PM.

Epstein got money and power over girls, over other powerful men. He started out as a school teacher (god what a thought).

Andrew opened himself up to what is happening now with the Newsnight interview. Chances are if he’d kept his mouth shut things would be very different for him. It’s likely that Virginia would not have been able to sue him. He probably was protected until that.

I have said this over and over. Surely just a simple matter of someone saying’oh yeah he was at my dc party’

I feel the same as you. I can’t believe the US are threatening to subpoena him to tell them what he knows. Why don’t they subpoena Trump and Melania? If I was Andrew I’d tell them to get stuffed and write a tell all book about who was there. That doesn’t mean I condone what he’s alleged to have done

In terms of what Epstein got out of hanging round the rich and famous, I think it was a veneer of respectability and importance, the better to let his crimes go under the radar. He told VG that he "owned" the police department. Joel Kenda is a retired police detective with a really high solve rate, and he has a TV series. He said that many psychopaths try to befriend the police, in order to better get away with stuff. OJ Simpson was the same, always inviting the police up for a few beers. Allowed him better chances of being able to write his wife's frequent calls to the police off as mere domestics.

If ABW is bisexual it would have been impossible to live this life. Back in 1999 I shared a taxi with a journalist who told me this and a story about another sibling who was gay but had gone back in the closet.
I worked in Harrods in the 80/90s and there was a big prostitution ring going on then looking for pretty girls for parties. Al Fayed and others we were told to keep away from. Luckily I was married and very tall so didn't get forced into anything.
I have never spoken out due to the risk to my family. I left London when I had my children.
I met Sarah Fergusson on a number of occasions and she seemed delightful. I do feel sorry for his daughters. This is disgusting and embarrassing. I don't think I could be around a family member who is alledged to have committed sex crimes. These ladies need to cut him loose. He wouldn't be at my Christmas table.

Hes pretty much fair game now for any allegations that the press decide to throw at him.

This, you've expressed it perfectly, couldn't work out why this made me so uncomfortable. What's the difference between raping trafficked girls vs boys? Is it homophobia or misogyny?

I dare say there is a ton of sordid stuff being kept very quiet - especially if it involves rich and powerful people, whether American or others.