To think that the law needs changing about right to protect yourself.

Given that the police have completly abandoned the streets and given them over to the petty criminals, sex offenders and murderers it's no wonder people are starting to think about self defence.
The police are now a political institution, and no longer have any interest in upholding the rule of law, instead they are simply an instrument the state to be used against its own citizens.
We should start by removing all police protection for MP's and tear down the fences around parliament. If the streets are not safe for our MP's, they are not safe for us. If they had to live with consequences of their policies maybe we would get better decision making.

So what happens when the pepper spray, guns etc get taken off the person carrying it and used against them?

We have the right to defend ourselves and can use unlimited force if you feel your life is in danger, already.
If pepper spray was on sale here though - those committing assault are just as likely to carry it. More interested fact.
You may as well say everyone in that train should have been carrying knives so they could defend against this rare and random knife attack.

In the USA where you can carry weapons - 10s of 1000s of people die every year. 40k + to guns, 1000s in stabbing sand other assaults.
in fact the only reason their knife crime is lower than gun crime is because they CAN carry guns.
It’s a very violent society. Why on earth would we want to replicate that here?

It happened years ago, i live a safe life, so no i dont feel fearful

YANBU. Not remotely.

Unfortunately with liberalism and overuse of human rights on people who waived such rights the moment they acted inhuman, even if we do attempt to protect ourselves, we'll be charged with something anyway. Also with self-defence skills, the law will not side with you in the majority of cases, especially if the attacker is not English. "Oh he was having a sexual emergency." or "He wasn't aware that it wasn't part our culture and sensibilities.".

If coming from the self-defence angle, the use of force needs to be proportionate, but that can be twisted every which way in court. The mental health card will be pulled and you'll be considered the unreasonable and mean person. But it is all we really have until any meaningful change in the law is made.

I carry pepper spray when I walk the dog at night. If I ever get attacked, I would happily use it.

There is no chance that CPS would charge me after being attacked by a man and then using pepper spray. And in the remote chance that CPS would prosecute me, I would serve no jail time. Worth the risk in my opinion.

Carry the pepper spray.

Sorry but that is odd. How bad does it have to get before you are allowed to say I am fearful of the level of crime? It is not a weakness to want to be able to live in a country with safe streets or would you be OK to live in a country like SA where safety is never an option?

I have been the victim of crime but that is a rare occurence, i do not live my life in the shadow of fear

I'm surprised so many people still walk around with their headphones in, looking at their phones - totally oblivious to what is going on around them. Happens so often that people just walk onto the road without checking for cars.

Crime is not down. Where on earth did you hear that? I think lots of crime goes unreported.

Totally agree OP. Fortunately I live in a city that is still safe but I am aware that it probably won't stay like this. I actively avoid certain cities in the UK. I didn't feel like this when I was young - 30 years ago. It is so sad what has happened to this country.

I think the OP is talking total bollocks but likewise just stating overall violent crime is down is completely meaningless. What’s needed is a breakdown of the types of violent crime - what’s up, what’s down, where, how? Just cobbling together “violent crime” and pretending it’s a declining problem doesn’t really help get to the bottom of things.

Where do you live? Do you ever have to catch a train late at night alone?

I caught a train last month in a major city it was 8pm so not that late. I had to walk through the city to get to another form of transport. I saw about 15 hooded men with masks on all in black racing through on bikes. It was incredibly intimidating. I have also seen men openly carrying knives...so yes it does not feel safe atm.

Ive been attacked before and almost a second time attempted mugging. Second time round I was already hyper aware of my surroundings. I dont listen to music when im out, keep my phone in my pocket, check who's out of my line of sight when walking, look for points of rscape/help. It shouldn't be like that but in my area its quite bad, mostly occurs in the city centre. Its been bad for a while though, and probably won't change.

What nonsense.
Do you want a police officer in every carriage? How about 3?
8 seconds?

The police responded and had the situation under control within 8 minutes! Thats incredible

Anything that can be used as a weapon for self-defence can also be used as an offensive weapon. Whatever you think should be legal to carry, how do you propose to ensure that only good people carry such things and not the bad people too? Besides, unless you have regular training, not just in using your weapon, but in how to respond effectively in a high-stress crisis situation, chances are you will just freeze up anyway.

If we want saints in uniform, we have to pay for them.

I don't feel less safe, things are not out of control

Yep. Some bloke I was conversing with said he was thinking about arming himself with a gun, a knife or a taser. He said all of this on a police Facebook site so he wasn’t very bright and will probably get a visit from a PCSO today 🤦🏻‍♀️

Ha ha Men??

People were trampled in the panic to escape the knife man, one can imagine it was mainly male passengers doing the trampling over women, children and the elderly.

I remember years ago being on a train and a man in the carriage got assaulted, this was one of the old slam door trains so it was one of the ones with individual compartments. Pepper spray wouldn't have been any bloody use.

Several times fights have broken out on trains.

Guards need to be going up and down more, maybe even BTP on trains.

However what really needs doing is looking at why so many mentally unwell people are walking the streets like this guy was.

Although I do understand the horror of this situation where there was not much that could be done against someone with a knife.

And other horrendous events come to mind.

Hard to know what’s best because people do want to feel safe.

Well I agree that many police officers are misogynistic and racist, I also think most of them are very brave and I am grateful they are willing to do the job as someone has to. I can think both things you know. A lot of people do.

So yes we need more police. We need to both pay them better and treat them better but also hold them to a higher standard than an averge person. As a payback for being held to a high standard of behaviour they should be treated with respect and paid well

If they consistently fall short of that standard of behaviour they should face the appropriate consequences.

I appreciate that this is cloud cuckoo land at the moment but it is what I see as the ideal to aim for.

Yes I agree. You can feel pretty frozen and in no way able to grab or use something.

I agree
DD does Taekwando and her instructor says always try and escape but if you can't hit hard once and run.