I’ve easily found £30bn of savings, so why can’t the government do this?

Why would Millionaires apply for that?

All pensioners have not just ' been given' £200 for winter fuel. The payment is £100, and higher rate taxpayers will have theirs clawed back. Riches.

And I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by 'all got given cheap houses' I don't know anyone who 'got given ' a house. When the interest on our first mortgage went up to 10% the monthly repayment was 60% of our total household income. We thanked our lucky stars we had fixed it at 10% for 5 years, because we literally cou!d not afford any more. My husband and I and 3 children all survived on the remaining 40%. It really didn't feel as though we were being given anything.

I've got a great idea. Let's impose punitive taxes on the monumentally stupid.

I can’t find the post now, but a PP mentioned that Australian pensions are means tested. They are, but their entire system is quite different. There is no NI, and employers are required to pay about 11% minimum to their superannuation, whereas it’s 3% in UK. Their higher rate tax band is also set at a higher level than ours, and higher rate itself is a lower tax percentage.

The level at which they start taking away pension though does seem low, for a single home-owner it’s AUD325k in financial assets.

@yellowshirt. Not all pensioners have been given £200 winter fuel allowance. Married couples have received £150 each; single pensioners have received £200. Those with sufficient earnings will repay it through theor tax codes.

The elderly were not given houses. They largely bought them with interest bearing mortgages and repaid the debt. Their children will benefit from the capital when their parents die. Also, not all pensuoners are owner occupiers.

Can you please confirm your own situation. May I assume, you have a full time job, pay tax and national insurance and are not in receipt of any benefits whatsover: child, tax credits, universal credit, fsm for your children?

May I also assume that you don't drink, smoke or eat too much rendering you obese and a potential drain on health services.

As ever Labour votes want to punish those who have worked to improve their lot.

I’m a pensioner; a much fairer idea is to increase income tax (paid by pensioners) and reduce National Insurance (not paid by pensioners). Better off pensioners would pay more, but would ease the burden on working people. Very simple to administer as well.

that's interesting.....IHT doesn't affect the older generation, it affects their kids and grandkids.

I think this is a daft idea but if it or something similar happens, it should be phased in. My retirement planning over 40 years factored in my state pension. Changing the rules while people still have the opportunity to modify their plans is one thing. Changing them substantially and throwing people's plans into disarray when they can no longer do anything about it is quite another.

We dont need to cut, we need to increase income. Im wondering how much taxing money before its sent offshore would bring in. Plus making sure big businesses pay the correct amount of tax

Yet the last Tory government put more money into the NHS than ever - so your facts don't add up.

We dont need to cut, we need to increase income. Im wondering how much taxing money before its sent offshore would bring in. Plus making sure big businesses pay the correct amount of tax

Not-quite-pensioner here.
Yes, we know that. Nobidy with any political awareness or general knowledge is ignorant of that. We paid for the pensions of those older than us, on the understanding that those coming behind would do the same for us.

all pensioners have not. The government decided that the easiest way to implement the changes to who gets the winter heating allowance was to pay it to all pensioners and then claw it back from those who are not elegible through their tax code.

That's Trump-onomics - coming to the UK soon if Reform get elected.

The Conservatives have already taken the UK a long way down this road - starving the NHS of funds and giving a low priority to education to the point that both are now close to collapse and far from what should be expected of a modern, affluent country (and far from what is the norm in most western European countries).

Have you forgot the uproar around removing the winter fuel payment from people who didn't need it?

You know full well that that is what you implied and now you are being called out on it you are trying to bluff your way out of the hole you dug yourself!

Surwly that also applies to every individual as well: nails, brows, coffees, takeaways. Perhaps individuals in receipt of benefits, including tax credits shpuld pay back the equivalent of what they spend on non essentials. Further, if there is work available anyone in receipt of universal credit should be made to accept additional hours rather than being allowed to decline them on the basis it will impact their universal credit.

I’d do something that would have a similar effect and scrap NI and increase income tax to make up the difference…. The whole idea of poorer working age people paying all state pensions (including multi-millionaires) is enormously regressive and unfair.

However, as pensioners (in total, not the poorer ones) would now pay more, it would mean young and working age people could pay less tax, whilst the overall tax generated would be the same.

I’d also change the bands to ensure that lower and middle earners (including pensioners) don’t pay more.

Most people don’t file income tax returns in the UK; it’s a totally different system.

I agree with your last sentence

so your bar for access would be property ownership of any kind....that makes more sense than what the OP is saying because I wouldn't have rent to pay.

Sounds like you would cut the state right back, would you? That I can understand. (though I still don't understand why anyone would target this when there's so much other money wasted.)

but if you're saying that a renter would get winter fuel help - what would the basis be for that? Especially if they've spent all the money they could've spent buying a flat on other stuff.

means testing a benefit that I've been forced to pay for doesn't make sense

Would like my NI back under OP proposal.

I think we would save more money again if we just closed the NHS, removed the right to education , there are so many stupid ideas

So if you have two people, both earning the same amount throughout their lives. One has saved to buy a one bedroom flat, the other spent all their income as they got it. Both have State pension only (just for sake of argument)

The pensioner who owns a one-bedroom flat wouldn’t get WFA.

Whereas the one having their rent paid by the State (because they’d qualify for help) would?

Where is the fairness in that?

Please note I am in Canada, so I may not have correct info.

Surely people file an income tax return every year. If such a scheme was implemented in Canada, I would get a letter from the pensions people that said "Because your 2024 private pension was $xxx which is over the limit for receiving a full state pension, your 2025 state pension will be $xx a month."

You getting terminology mixed up @kittywittyandpretty ?

There's a difference between capital growth and interest payments on investments. Yeah, you could be £15k up in capital growth the last 5 days, but then you could be £75k down tomorrow. People generally avoid looking at short term performances of pensions as the value can vary wildly. Better to look at performance over the medium to long term.

Pay for your heating out of your pension.

The government needs to stop spending money unless it's essential until they come up with a tax system that covers paying the debts back.

It's absolutely ridiculous that no one seems to be able to grasp that we as a country need to stop wasting money.