I’ve easily found £30bn of savings, so why can’t the government do this?

So all the people who have worked hard all their lives and have propped up the pensions for others get nothing and the people who have sat around on their arses get it all?

GB News joins the chat

I'm sure anyone's plans are going to be better than what Rachel (from accounts) and her mates are about to reveal... however... I thought they had inherited a £20bn black hole from the tories, about 18 months' ago. Allegedly it took the tories 14 years to accumulate that so how on earth have they gained another £10bn in such a short time?

The easiest way to increase the contribution from pensioners is to scrap NI and raise that money from income tax. There is no good reason why tax is lower on unearned income such as pensions, dividends, rents and and investments, rather than wages

I don't want to no your family history. It's personal to you and boring to everyone else.
I'm sorry I've never got my head around there and their. English is not my strong point.
It sounds like maths isn't your strong point but I won't hold it against you.
The government should be giving money to people who need it not wasting it on people with savings in the bank and a mortgage free roof over your head.
Your from the entitled generation who are taking more out of the system than they have put in.
I'm working 60 hours a week as a single person in rented accommodation. There's no right to buy housing scheme to help us . Just houses starting at £220000 being built.

So I have paid NI since I was 15 years old and have to wait to retire until feck knows when AND state pension will be reduced?

@utamea

I topped up my contributions about a couple of years ago, after being told that I hadn't paid quite enough because the rules were changed at some point. I paid over 800 pounds. Had I thought that there was any chance of the rules being changed again, I wouldn't have paid.

The other thing to consider is that making a significant number of the population poorer is not going to help the economy grow. For a laugh I’ve asked ChatGPT why it thinks the U.K. economy is in such a poor state and why. Is it Brexit, welfare costs or asylum seekers or something else.

ChatGPT says the biggest reason is lack of growth and listed a raft of reasons for this lack of growth, none of which will be solved by raising taxes or slashing state pension. Quoted a lot of the Institute for fiscal studies about how to kickstart growth and also talked about tax reform to make it fairer and encourage growth rather than simply raising taxes. Mainly about boosting investment to boost productivity. Focus on training, infrastructure, supporting businesses to adopt new technologies . Hopefully Reeves has been asking ChatGPT for advice…or even listening to experts from the IFS.

So we're going to tell people that the more national insurance you pay, the less pension you will get? Hmm.

@OwnGravityField
Your saving figures are also wrong

UK SP costs £138billion p.a.
That's 11million pensioners

About 8 5 million pay income tax.
And 1 million pay higher rate tax.

2.5 million @ 0%
7.5 million @ 20%
1 million @ 40% tax

[ (7 5 x 20%) + (1 x 40%) ] / 11 ==> 17.2%

Average tax recouped is 17% which you haven't factored into your benefit calc. So your maximum saving is under half of what you think it is.

While effectively making a retrospective tax change to the planning of 10 million people

so folk who have worked and saved all their life for a good retirement will be robbed… go chase yourself

If any of what you proposed happened with the state pension, I’d be demanding my contributions back. And I’d push for no NI. Absolutely a batshit idea.

Everyone lost their shit when the Government announced plans to means test the winter fuel payment. Good luck withstanding the Daily Mail/Telegraph confected outrage at this proposal 😬

Is that you Reeves? Shaking that piggy bank again furiously are we?

I suppose that what you have failed to account for is the fact that a pension is generally something that you've paid into whilst you worked and then you receive a pension based on the fact that you've contributed. State pension is based on national insurance contribution years.

Do you seriously think that it would be OK to say to someone: OK, you've worked hard and contributed NI for 45 years - now go and fuck yourself, you're not having any state pension?

Your stroke of genius basically amounts to theft and deception - of honest taxpayers.

I will also point out that when I worked as a student, I didn't pay enough NI during those years for the years to count. So I topped those years up with voluntary contributions when I was working in my 20s. That was to secure my pension. It would literally be deception and theft if I was not allowed to receive my state pension that I secured in good faith.

Also, 'wealthy people shouldn't get the winter fuel allowance' was a no brainer argument - before somebody tried to implement it.

Well Labour generally is the politics of envy, so I’m not surprised at some of the things their supporters are coming out with.

Thank you! I didn't see the gov.uk version, which is slightly better (we're in the first category).

Jealousy is dripping from your post, they have paid into the system for the previous generation so are fully entitled to have their state pension, I hope they spend it on a world cruise just to annoy you.

I just knew it had to involve pensioners when I saw the thread title 🙄

There are more people than ever (not just immigration) and there was a pandemic. We can see through this.

My late parents (Mum died 2017, Dad in 2022) would have loved a chat with those people on here who think all pensioners own property and spend their state pension on "luxuries".

There seems to be a MN trope that goes "I know some better-off pensioners, therefore they're ALL really well off". These seem also to be people who apparently never think they themselves will get old.

It is (unnecessarily IMO) confusing!

www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/how-much-youll-get

If you do not get any of the benefits
You’ll get a payment of:

• £100 if you and the person you live with were both born between 22 September 1945 and 21 September 1959
• £100 if you were born between 22 September 1945 and 21 September 1959 but the person you live with was born before 22 September 1945
• £200 if you were born before 22 September 1945 but the person you live with was born between 22 September 1945 and 21 September 1959
• £150 if you and the person you live with were born before 22 September 1945

Indeed - I can see the notes say over 80s get more. The bit I'm confused about is that online notes I found don't mention getting £100 each.

Not true according to AI Overview:

While the elderly account for a significant portion of NHS spending, it is not true that they account for the majority of the entire NHS budget. Health spending per person is highest for the very elderly, but they make up a smaller portion of the total population.