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I’ve easily found £30bn of savings, so why can’t the government do this?

462 replies

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:36

How about this state pension adjustment proposal?

Currently, the state pension system pays the same to everyone, even to households with very large private pensions and investment incomes. Much of this money ends up funding luxuries.

The proposal is simple:
*full SP for everyone who depends on it (60% of pensioners)
*households with more than £12,000 a year from private pensions, work, or investments have 50p of SP withdrawn for every £1 above that level, up to the value of the pension itself
*A quarter of pensioners would only have a modest reduction, and only the wealthiest 15% would no longer receive a publicly funded pension they do not need.

I used chatGPT to do the calculations.

Savings? THIRTY BILLION A YEAR

That’s 1% of GDP

List of things that could improve?

restored trust between generations so young taxpayers see their money spent on genuine need, not luxury.

national renewal: homes, NHS, lower childcare costs, investment in schools, training, the police force. It could be used to help families who are struggling with mortgage costs.

re-directing spending from low-value consumption (luxuries, imports) to investment (homes, healthcare, infrastructure) improves living standards

Positive effect on the bond markets, sterling value, credit-rating agencies, inflation trends, reduction in government debt - the UK really really needs this right now

I’d absolutely get up off my bum and vote for a party that proposed this. Would you?

OP posts:
OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:56

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 02/11/2025 10:54

Also we didn’t have the final salary pensions and the widespread employer pensions with auto-enrolment and matching contributions didn’t exist until Gen X were halfway or later through their working years. So this would push an entire generation into pensioner poverty.

60% keep full SP.

Those in genuine poverty would continue to get pension credits. This proposal does not affect the majority.

OP posts:
OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:55

modgepodge · 02/11/2025 10:40

Pensioners vote more than young people so parties don’t suggest policies which will upset them.

i suspect many people would feel ‘what’s the point in saving in to a private pension if it means I don’t get my full state pension’. Might as well not put in to a pension, unlsss you know you’ll be one of the ones with a huge pension. Much like some people on universal credit may not be motivated to take on additional hours as once transport/childcare costs are accounted for and their UC is reduced for the additional earnings, they’re no better off.

Not saying I disagree with the idea in principle, but I don’t think it’s as simple as you make out.

See the calcs. For the majority, will still receive full pension, including those with a private pension/income of 12k on top of SP

OP posts:
2GreatFatSquirrels · 02/11/2025 10:54

Personally if you did that I’d stop saving into a private pension and invest in property or stocks instead.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 02/11/2025 10:54

RhaenysRocks · 02/11/2025 10:51

I get what you're saying but as pp said, why would people bother saving more into private pensions if it means having the state benefit reduces? Same as the resentment felt by those who have to sell their very hard won assets to find a bed in a nursing home when Betty next door didn't bother and had the exact same provision.
I do think that we need to look at a much longer term change...the boomer generation are now staring to be replaced by Gen X who haven't benefitted quite so much from house price rises but we've mostly all spent decades now paying in...and I know it's not an individual pension pot and such but it would still garner opposition. If there could be a cross party agreement for a long term plan that will kick in twenty or thirty years time so only the youngest current workers would be affected but have decades to plan, then I think it might be more feasible.

Also we didn’t have the final salary pensions and the widespread employer pensions with auto-enrolment and matching contributions didn’t exist until Gen X were halfway or later through their working years. So this would push an entire generation into pensioner poverty.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/11/2025 10:53

That would be bang out of order and I would be furious. I am 50 and am currently foregoing luxuries to put as much as I can in to my company pension. I have already EARNT my state pension. Absolutely no to funding people who are making the decisions to not have a private pension.

Nickyknackered · 02/11/2025 10:53

households with more than £12,000 a year from private pensions, work, or investments have 50p of SP withdrawn for every £1 above that level, up to the value of the pension itself

So if there's 2 of you claiming SP and one has a PP, you both get penalised?

rwalker · 02/11/2025 10:53

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:48

Setup (IT + communications)
£1.5–£2 billion (one-off)
Similar to Universal Credit rollout, but simpler
Annual running cost
£0.5–£0.7 billion
~3% of £30 billion savings
Net fiscal gain
~£29 billion per year
After admin costs
Feasibility
High
DWP and HMRC already share most required data

It looks like the ‘admin costs’ thing won’t wash this time

What the advantage of paying for a private pension where when your only going to be marginally better off
peo wouldn’t bother

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:53

Frankinator · 02/11/2025 10:51

And the government would just bring that in overnight would it? Presumably not, so you’d get literally hundreds or thousands of doctors / teachers take early retirement so that they still got the state pension….

See the original calcs. Teachers and doctors minimally affected.

OP posts:
OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:52

PermanentTemporary · 02/11/2025 10:49

NI contributions now pay for current budget so very risky for current income if a lot of people simply stop contributing.

Fair to use chatGPT to run some numbers and play with ideas - I hope the government are doing it - but extremely wary about its predictions of political reactions!

Why not become an MP?

Working people and employers cannot currently opt out of paying tax and NI. If they can, that’s some major news I’ve missed!

OP posts:
MotherofPufflings · 02/11/2025 10:52

So in summary: means test the state pension.

Do you seriously think that this hasn't been considered by the government and rejected for various reasons?

onlytakesaminute · 02/11/2025 10:51

No so I’ve paid in all my life and potentially get nothing.
No thanks. Let’s start with a benefits reform first then look at pensions.

Frankinator · 02/11/2025 10:51

And the government would just bring that in overnight would it? Presumably not, so you’d get literally hundreds or thousands of doctors / teachers take early retirement so that they still got the state pension….

ChocolateBoxCottage · 02/11/2025 10:51

I have kids with ehcps. I could tell them how to make my LA massive savings without cutting any provision. My MP won't even meet with me.

Ie if it's not sexy vote winning idea no one cares.

In my case my LA don't know if they have service level agreement software. They had a call with Ofsted and senior managers didn't know why they don't follow legal deadlines and said this in front of the Ofsted inspector.

They are happy paying the fines / compensation. Go figure.

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:51

Blushingm · 02/11/2025 10:48

You do know that CHATGPT isn’t always right don’t you?

Yes, I do know this. On stats though, tends to be fairly accurate. I do have to add challenge.

OP posts:
RhaenysRocks · 02/11/2025 10:51

I get what you're saying but as pp said, why would people bother saving more into private pensions if it means having the state benefit reduces? Same as the resentment felt by those who have to sell their very hard won assets to find a bed in a nursing home when Betty next door didn't bother and had the exact same provision.
I do think that we need to look at a much longer term change...the boomer generation are now staring to be replaced by Gen X who haven't benefitted quite so much from house price rises but we've mostly all spent decades now paying in...and I know it's not an individual pension pot and such but it would still garner opposition. If there could be a cross party agreement for a long term plan that will kick in twenty or thirty years time so only the youngest current workers would be affected but have decades to plan, then I think it might be more feasible.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 02/11/2025 10:50

I’ve paid voluntary NICs, so where is my refund?

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:50

columnatedruinsdomino · 02/11/2025 10:48

Why stop at pensions. If you’re means testing old people why not millionaires who claim free childcare places as well?

Millionaires can’t get free childcare. The 30hour entitlement is means tested.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 02/11/2025 10:49

NI contributions now pay for current budget so very risky for current income if a lot of people simply stop contributing.

Fair to use chatGPT to run some numbers and play with ideas - I hope the government are doing it - but extremely wary about its predictions of political reactions!

Why not become an MP?

ainsleysanob · 02/11/2025 10:49

Erm. No.

Blushingm · 02/11/2025 10:48

You do know that CHATGPT isn’t always right don’t you?

Redberryhot · 02/11/2025 10:48

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:44

I ran the calcs on chatgpt about public sentiment:

Whether people would back this reform depends on how it is framed, who explains it, and when it is introduced. Yet the evidence suggests that, if presented clearly and fairly, a majority of voters would support it.

Around thirteen million people currently receive the State Pension which is about one in four voters. The remaining three-quarters are working-age, and many of them feel that the system no longer reflects today’s realities. Research by YouGov and Ipsos shows:

  • 60–70% of under-50s believe the triple lock and universal pension payments are unsustainable.
  • Around 40% of pensioners agree that wealthier retirees should receive less.
  • Roughly two-thirds of all voters support the principle that people with large private pensions should get a reduced State Pension.

So, it looks like it would actually be a vote winner at election.

But pensioners are more likely to vote than younger people.

There is no way any political party would propose this for the short-term, the period in which they need to find the £30bn.

And don't forget, wealthier pensioners pay tax too. I'll be paying 40% on all of my state pension and we've budgeted our retirement on that basis as self-employed DH doesn't have much of a pension.

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:48

Setup (IT + communications)
£1.5–£2 billion (one-off)
Similar to Universal Credit rollout, but simpler
Annual running cost
£0.5–£0.7 billion
~3% of £30 billion savings
Net fiscal gain
~£29 billion per year
After admin costs
Feasibility
High
DWP and HMRC already share most required data

It looks like the ‘admin costs’ thing won’t wash this time

OP posts:
columnatedruinsdomino · 02/11/2025 10:48

Why stop at pensions. If you’re means testing old people why not millionaires who claim free childcare places as well?

zaxxon · 02/11/2025 10:47

Have you factored in the cost of means-testing the UK's 13 million pensioners? Means-tested benefits are much more expensive to run than universal ones, and there are several hundred thousand people joining and leaving the scheme each year.

drspouse · 02/11/2025 10:47

OwnGravityField · 02/11/2025 10:46

I agree. That’s usually the line that’s trotted out. Again, I plugged in that query: It shouldn’t cost anything extra since the government is already working on joined up infrastructure (e.g linking DWP info to HMRC).

You are aware that Chat GPT makes things up?