To think women have double standards

Yeah, to me, this is like worrying about a pin hole leaking water in a boat when there is a huge approaching tidal wave right behind you.

Of course we have double standards. Some of us even use it to our advantage. Social media has started to change that dynamic though. There is a sort of public information campaign highlighting "our tricks" and a new generation of young men are now much more educated.

I don't know what the result will be in terms of societal change, but the shift can already be seen. Men no longer approach women in social settings. Young men are more likely to be single than in a relationship.

I think it's like the Corner Spider discovery. Back in the 1950's, in North America, significant numbers of people were being bitten by Black Window Spiders (or so everyone thought). People believed that the bites were occurring in outhouses, because Widow's liked to spin webs next to water sources that attracted insects.

The public health response was a national drive to install indoor plumbing. However, Reports of spider bites remained consistent, despite the "removal" of the obvious cause. It wasn't until a decade later that they discovered the Corner Spider was responsible for the bites, not the Widow. They were distracted by the reputation of the Widow, and overlooked the little brown spider hiding in the corner.

I think the narrative of "All Men" was pushed by the majority of us to justify our own behaviour. Now that the "outhouses" of relationships have been dismantled, are we only now beginning to see the true cause of much of the issues we blamed men for. Lesbian marriages have the highest rates of divorce. So even where men aren't involved, we end relationships in greater numbers.

So yeah, I think there's a whole lot of double standards that we either won't acknowledge, or we won't accept responsibility for.

THIS. Are you seriously suggesting that women objectifying men is "just as bad" as the other way around considering the consequences of both and the fact that it is women who are disproportionately the victims of male sexual crimes?

If so, I am quite shocked at your naivety/ignorance.

I used go get to fitness camps holidays quite regularly. The ones run by ex military guys (generally RAF)

it's the only time I have experienced this kind of thing.

it seemed to be older "dolly" women (hair nails eyelashed fake tan etc) in their 50s(?) / with grown children. They were generally unhappy "kept" women who had to "look good" and "keep their figure" "for their husbands"

They were absolutely salacious and wpuld make the grossest lewdest comments...
I'd be there thinking " for gods sake....shut up and just do your bear crawls/ press ups/ burpees so we can finish and get half a sodding rice cake and hummus!!!"

Just gross.
I am not sure but my guess was they were frustrated and unhappy at their lack of power / volition in their lives and as they had power over the instructor (as the client) they felt they could do this.

BUT its no where on par with many men who wish violence, death, humiliation, degradation and subjugation of women

I don’t agree with this. The murder rates of male perpetrators/ female victims are not akin to white perpetrators/ black victims.

I think women being at a physical disadvantage to men, makes it a very distinct issue.

Women have been treated as lesser beings by men for pretty much the whole of history, so it isn’t the same thing at all. It’s akin to accusing ethnic minorities of racism against white people - women are oppressed and men are the oppressor.

Came on to say this.

There seems to be a far higher expectation of women than there is for men. Men have always have the “boys will be boys.” The second a woman or group of women say anything a man will grab onto that. In this case the op was more than ready to agree.

But the difference is- men's thoughts about objectifying women taken to its extreme conclusion results in rape and violent crime. If objectification of either gender was equally as bad then surely the crime stats wouldn't show its men doing all the violent crime. You cannot ignore this.

YABU to think that all women have or do anything on the basis of what a small group has done

I think it’s a bit odd to overhear a small group of people and make generalisations about how 50% of the population think as a whole.

If they were talking about how they don’t believe in climate change, would you make the assumption that all women are climate change deniers?

Some people are judgemental arseholes, as these women and you and your husband have demonstrated.

I don’t know how to explain my thoughts very well but both men and women have these conversations and always have done you have no idea if the women you over heard would be outraged if they over heard men talking that way so how do you know they have double standards?

Women then don't have the power to go and commit acts against men. Men who gather and egg each other on have been then shown to commit sexual or violent crimes. Men who listen to Andrew Tate, Men who was extreme porn is always a factor in crimes against women. Women generally have more empathy and many are the household managers, so that pulls us back. We can have a moan without taking that out on the men were encounter and the men in our lives.

Indeed. Out of all the conversations I have heard out and about, I have heard far more derogatory and sexist conversations by men than by women....

YANBU. And you're brave for two reasons:

1. Noticing.
2. Posting on here about it of all places.

Men also have those conversations

I agree that women do sometimes objectify men. IME the language used by (some) men about women is far worse though (especially online).

Do you ever travel by train?

It's very usually the case that it's impossible not to listen in to " private" conversations. Especially when conducted by a group of people as opposed to a tete a tete.

I agree with @PiccadillyPurple
that women who talk in a derogatory way about men think that its a normal way to talk about the opposite sex and that men talking about women in the same way is just as acceptable.

Personally my view of feminism was always that it's aim was to give women equal status in society and it makes me sad to see how many women have seen it as the opportunity to embrace their right to adopt all the worst traits of men's behaviour.

Men and women will talk inappropriately between each other, doesn't make it right but I don't think in this situation it is double standards, it is women talking loudly and inappropriately if it was men i would think the same.,

“Yes. There probably is a double standard. But it’s probably based on the fact that men commit 98% of sex crimes.”

Is what I’d have told my husband.

Some people are just dicks, men and women.

I always think with these types of posts that there is some confusion about what ‘double standards’ and ‘hypocritical’ means