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Are English people treated worse than the rest of the UK?

86 replies

Haruka · 30/10/2025 07:22

Not a goady thread, I am foreign-born and reading the new rules on bus passes today has once again thrown up this question for me. Perhaps there are other systems in place and someone can shine a light on this and educate me.

But why is it that English people seem to constantly have worse conditions than the rest of Britain, and are we thus subsidising the other nations?

  • Bus passes: new rules will link eligibility in England to state pension age, while old people in Scotland and Wales will remain eligible from age 60
  • University fees: no tuition fees for Scots, but the other nations pay fees of almost 10k.
  • No prescription charges in Wales or Scotland, but English people pay £9.90 per item. We all use the NHS.
I'm sure there are more. I do not mean to insult anyone; these are just current rules. So why is it that in all 3 examples the English are worst off? Do people in the other nations pay more through taxes?
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Laurmolonlabe · 24/04/2026 15:10

In that case it should have been dissolved then. I was surprised because l have studied this period and have never heard the Scottish MP voted to dissolve.
The Darien Scheme was more profound in affect than just bankrupting a few Lairds, however.

Inverness1900 · 24/04/2026 11:34

Laurmolonlabe · 24/04/2026 00:14

Excellent we should do that - I think you will be disappointed in how far your tax revenue goes- England subsidises a lot more than just free prescriptions and free higher education- that is why the Scots did not vote for devolution, they know it is not in their interest.
Far more tax revenue goes North from England than goes South from Scotland, and always has, ever since 1707, when it was absorbed because it was completely bankcrupt, but if I were from Scotland I would probably feel the same way you do- self determination is always more satisfying.

" always has, ever since 1707, when it was absorbed because it was completely bankcrupt"

At the beginning of the 1700s, England's national debt was about 15 million. after decades and decades of being at war with France. Scotland's national debt was a little over 100 thousand pound. A the time, England was five times the size of Scotland's population. So call that £500,000 Scottish debt, vs £15 million English debt, adjusted for population.

The English parliament realised they couldn't afford to increase the taxes on the English without there being another revolt, rioting and possible insurrection by the English people, who were already being taxed very heavily in order to pay for the wars with France.

An answer to that problem was to absorb Scotland into a 'union' with just one parliament and just one place that taxes were taken in by the crown.
That being England and Westminster. By doing so it'd mean that all the English debts that'd been accrued could be split between both nations and have Scotland and the Scottish take on a share of all those debts meaning they'd not have to significantly raise the taxes levied on the English but instead have access to all of Scotland's taxes generated here and have them paid to the English Treasury instead.

The Darien scheme bankrupted some Scottish lairds, not Scotland itself.
Did you know that just 6 years into it, every Scottish MP in Westminster, voted to abolish the union. But they were significantly outvoted, and the vote was squashed. The union should have been over then and there.

Inverness1900 · 24/04/2026 11:24

Laurmolonlabe · 24/04/2026 00:14

Excellent we should do that - I think you will be disappointed in how far your tax revenue goes- England subsidises a lot more than just free prescriptions and free higher education- that is why the Scots did not vote for devolution, they know it is not in their interest.
Far more tax revenue goes North from England than goes South from Scotland, and always has, ever since 1707, when it was absorbed because it was completely bankcrupt, but if I were from Scotland I would probably feel the same way you do- self determination is always more satisfying.

"that is why the Scots did not vote for devolution, they know it is not in their interest." It's comments like this which show just how uninformed you are on the subject. Scotland already has devolution, because WE voted for it. Our income tax is slightly higher than it is in England, and that covers things like college tuition and prescriptions. Not English tax payers. It's ignorant comments like this which only strengthens our desire to leave the union.

Second, I'm curious, would you hand over sovereignty of your country to a much larger political power, for what you "believe" Scots get from you? Would you be happy, if say, Beijing replaced Westminster. And England sent 57 MPs to Beijing, in a parliament that was made up of 650 MPS. Of which over 550 are Chinese. 57 are English, and the rest are made up of other small countries? Beijing makes decisions in parliament that are most often the opposite of what England voted. But China's significantly larger, so China virtually always decides for you, your laws, your trade, etc etc. All for what you believe Scotland gets from being in a union with England.

Would you support this? Would most English people support this?

MrsOni · 24/04/2026 01:06

Hahahaha fuck no. That's like when middle aged white men claim to be the ignored middle or some shite.

GaIadriel · 24/04/2026 00:51

Left wing government's provide better public services, for a higher tax.

Not sure this is what we're seeing atm. Well, maybe the higher tax bit.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 24/04/2026 00:46

They’re choosing to spend differently
eg Scotland gets free university tuition fees but FE is underfunded.

www.eis.org.uk/further-education-news/fefundingcuts

Laurmolonlabe · 24/04/2026 00:14

Excellent we should do that - I think you will be disappointed in how far your tax revenue goes- England subsidises a lot more than just free prescriptions and free higher education- that is why the Scots did not vote for devolution, they know it is not in their interest.
Far more tax revenue goes North from England than goes South from Scotland, and always has, ever since 1707, when it was absorbed because it was completely bankcrupt, but if I were from Scotland I would probably feel the same way you do- self determination is always more satisfying.

Serenity75 · 23/04/2026 23:09

No

Inverness1900 · 23/04/2026 22:51

Laurmolonlabe · 23/04/2026 22:29

We are expected to pay for far better conditions in Scotland and Wales and put up with not having free prescriptions or higher education ourselves.
I would devolve them both and see how they fare without the City of London underwriting all their expensive decisions.

This might come as a shock to you. But we don't want your money. Hence our support for independence. Secondly, all our tax revenue goes south. We get a little over half of it back. Politicians in England splash the rest of it on crap that we rarely ever see back. Things like the HS2 and the new Manchester project. Huge projects that never get built in Scotland or Wales. We'd rather keep our own money and make our own laws. Btw, London also subsidizes many regions in England. The problem is the way the union works. It's set up to benefit London and the south West. Which superficially makes England look like it's singlehandedly carrying the UK. But that's once again, because of how the union has deliberately been run. Other areas have been left to rot.

Inverness1900 · 23/04/2026 22:44

newornotnew · 23/04/2026 22:33

It's not odd at all - who would England seek to become independent from? England politically dominates due to number of MPs.

But apparently we're a huge burden and they're fed up of hearing us complain. It is odd that England alone has enough seats in Westminster to unilaterally leave the union, yet there's no single pro-indy party.

newornotnew · 23/04/2026 22:33

Scottish84 · 12/12/2025 19:01

We would love that too. Odd though, England doesn't have an independence party. The rest of the UK have at least one in each country. In England, it's the same across the spectrum, from the Greens to Reform, they're all staunch unionists. Not sure why, since they carry the huge burden of the union entirely on their shoulders.

It's not odd at all - who would England seek to become independent from? England politically dominates due to number of MPs.

newornotnew · 23/04/2026 22:31

WonderingWanda · 30/10/2025 07:31

I suspect it's because of the difference in population size. England is 58.6m, Scotland 5.5, Wales 3.1 and NI 1.9.

When you have a larger population costs rise e.g. crime rates and road maintenance, etc. The overcrowding can impact quality of life and therefore more social problems. So less money to spend on things like free tuition.

This is upside down.

The small rural populations of Wales and Scotland are more expensive for public services to cover.

Laurmolonlabe · 23/04/2026 22:29

We are expected to pay for far better conditions in Scotland and Wales and put up with not having free prescriptions or higher education ourselves.
I would devolve them both and see how they fare without the City of London underwriting all their expensive decisions.

Squirrelintree · 12/12/2025 19:50

Terrribletwos · 12/12/2025 19:14

That's not true! It's not outer Mongolia ffs.

I have been to outer Mongolia. There were lots of sheep and rain so it reminded me of Wales.

Terrribletwos · 12/12/2025 19:14

ConcordeSkyHigh · 30/10/2025 10:15

Because if we do anything about it, Scotland will vote for independence.

Have you been to Scotland OP? You can drive for miles and miles without seeing a house, person or car. Miles.

That's not true! It's not outer Mongolia ffs.

Scottish84 · 12/12/2025 19:05

England, like the rest of the UK, did have free uni and prescriptions. But then they voted for parties that took them away. We didn't.
Don't look at it as something Scotland and Wales get, or a bonus, or a bribe. It's something the politicians in England reprioritised. They'd rather give handouts to large US companies than you. Why do you think so many in Scotland want to get away from this union? Even though we have devolution, Westminster retains a lot of the most important powers normal nations have, from Scotland.

Scottish84 · 12/12/2025 19:01

noidea69 · 30/10/2025 11:30

As an english person i would be more than delighted if the other countries in the UK got their independence and went off to do thier own thing without any financial assistance from england.

We would love that too. Odd though, England doesn't have an independence party. The rest of the UK have at least one in each country. In England, it's the same across the spectrum, from the Greens to Reform, they're all staunch unionists. Not sure why, since they carry the huge burden of the union entirely on their shoulders.

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2025 14:03

twinklystar23 · 30/10/2025 07:34

Was just going to say the Barnett formula, last time I read it was about 7k per head in England £¥k in Wales and 11k in Scotland. This is money from the government. It was a rough formula brought in about 1970s I struggle to see the fairness tbh

The Barnett formula needs to be revised, it only takes account of population numbers and not the fact that public services cost more per head to deliver in Wales because of geographic and demographic challenges.

Namechangeforthis88 · 30/10/2025 13:46

TheNightingalesStarling · 30/10/2025 07:57

Scotland Wales and NI have two "governments"... their own one (,Scottish Assembly etc) and the UK one. England just has the UK one. So England follows the National policy, and the other nations can overrule it.

If you want real "fun", find the people who live in one nation but work in the other... the tax and entitlements are a minefield.

Partly true.

Certain specific matters are devolved to Scotland, NI and Wales. UK Gov policy just doesn't apply and decisions are made by devolved powers.

Other areas are retained by UK government and in these policies UK decides and budgets, devolved powers cannot "over rule".

AgnesX · 30/10/2025 13:24

helpfulperson · 30/10/2025 12:19

If people stopped posting things on here they could just google it would be a very quiet site.

This is true but sometimes these questions are really quite ingenuous and generally aimed at enraging people.

If the question was more of the "in your opinion do you think..." rather than expecting an abridged history/politics lesson then it might be a bit more honest (which frankly I don't think these posters ever are).

Gair · 30/10/2025 12:54

Regarding my comment to @twinklystar23 about the number of Scottish students enrolled at Scottish universities. I have just realised that the total for the 2022/23 period might be under 175,00 rather than my estimate of 700,000 having further sense checked it against % of population attending uni and % of 16-24 year olds in employment (can't track down exact stats since they do not seem to be recorded in an easily accessible fashion).

It makes more sense that the slightly sub-175k number is the TOTAL (not just 1st year enrollment) number of Scottish students at Scottish universities in 2022/23, so less than a tenth of the number originally suggested by @twinklystar23 .

Happy for any corrections from anyone familiar with the stats on this one!

helpfulperson · 30/10/2025 12:19

AgnesX · 30/10/2025 07:36

You've got a whole internet to find information but the short answer is

You get what you vote for
Yes, Scotland pays more taxes, at least some of us do.

If people stopped posting things on here they could just google it would be a very quiet site.

EasternStandard · 30/10/2025 12:18

zazazaaar · 30/10/2025 07:49

Because the English have chosen a right wing government, whereas Wales and Scoland have been more left leaning. Left wing government's provide better public services, for a higher tax. Whereas Right Wing government's except individuals to pay for their own services.
Reform and the Tories aim to remove the NHS entirely.
As for using Bartlett as example, it completely ignores the amount spent per head in the South East of the UK compared to the rest of the country in public money on infrastructure.

You’re still reliant on funding. If we all earned lower amounts and demanded more we couldn’t have the free stuff.

ThatCleverCoralCrow · 30/10/2025 12:17

Not when it comes to childcare compared to Scotland.

noidea69 · 30/10/2025 12:16

Howmanycatsistoomany · 30/10/2025 11:50

And as a Scot I would be delighted if Trident was parked off the south coast of England.

I'm from North east england. Would be more than happy for Trident to be off the coast here, and have all the jobs around it here too.