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Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

888 replies

ConservativeC2 · 28/10/2025 20:58

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

OP posts:
SoManyTshirts · 31/10/2025 11:55

Octavia64 · 28/10/2025 21:07

When my mum started working it was completely legal to pay women less than men for doing exactly the same job.

some women had to resign their jobs when they got married.

she considered sexual harassment completely normal behaviour from the men in the office.

i don’t want it to be normal for women to be sexually harassed in the office. I don’t want women to be paid less than men for the exact same job. I don’t want women to be banned from being teachers or doctors at all, or banned from working after they are married.

being married to someone who is legally entitled to have sex with you whether you consent or not and legally entitled to keep all household money from you and your children leaving you to be cold and hungry is not a good position to be in.

i don’t want to go back to those days.

Yes, my mother was affected by all of this and I remember some of it too. Not being able to get credit or a mortgage as a single woman. The women forced to bear and give up children for adoption after becoming pregnant by force. Women entering abusive marriages as the only way of escaping parental abuse. Many married women did work for low wages, especially if their husbands were low earners or just plain selfish.

I’ve had a much better life than the 50s housewife, solo parenting and taking full responsibility for my own finances. It’s been easier at times with a partner but I can’t imagine wanting to cede them full financial control.

ObelixtheGaul · 31/10/2025 11:44

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:14

Oh don't remind me of the orange and brown. I'll have nightmares.

And then there was avocado. Nothing more vomit inducing than the green bath and sink complementing the brown walls...

ObelixtheGaul · 31/10/2025 11:34

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 06:36

Yes but inflation is much higher now compared to average salaries. University for you guys back then was pretty much free right? Great for feminism… that choice… look at it now… £9k+ a year. Women in stem jobs is lower than ever. Women are in debt from uni. Men overall still get paid more. Yes, we don’t all have to go to uni, but nice to have the choice and not be in so much debt.

I think progress for women has stalled… under capitalism mostly. Those are my views. We’ve definitely benefitted in many ways, but progress has now stalled.

University was pretty much free but far fewer people went.

Over 50% of school leavers will go to university now. In the early 90s it was less than 25%
In the 60s it was as low as 5%

It was harder to get into university, much more weighted towards those who had attended private school. Most average state comprehensive school leavers went straight to work at 16.

Despite the cost, far more people go to uni now than at any point in our nation's history.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 31/10/2025 11:32

Nah, 2025 is a fantastic time to be a woman. What you CHOOSE to do with your life is yours for the taking. I'd rather be a woman here and now than 50/100/200yrs ago

Mrsnothingthanks · 31/10/2025 11:32

@ObelixtheGaul Thank you. My life now is so much happier but it came at a price. Still, no regrets x

childofthe607080s · 31/10/2025 11:28

In the 1970/80s between 10 and 20% of kids got to go to uni

60% of them were male and only 40% female

RubySquid · 31/10/2025 11:25

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:24

I'm in my 70s, not sure how that compares.

She'd have been 100 next year

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:24

RubySquid · 31/10/2025 11:22

You are probably quite a bit younger than the lady I spoke about. I'm not sure employers were that way inclined back then

I'm in my 70s, not sure how that compares.

RubySquid · 31/10/2025 11:22

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:18

I did university as day release with two kids. When I applied to do it my boss asked if I could do 5 days work in 4 days. I guaranteed I could do he approved it. Lunch hours became a thing of the past, uni days involved me going into the office before getting to uni for 9 am and lecture till 7 pm. It was a long five years but ultimately worth it.

You are probably quite a bit younger than the lady I spoke about. I'm not sure employers were that way inclined back then

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:18

RubySquid · 31/10/2025 11:11

Far less people especially women went to uni. My sons late grandmother was a very intelligent woman. However she wasn't allowed the attend grammars schools like her brothers as she was a girl. And considered a waste of time as she'd just get married and have kids

She did get married at 22 and moved far from her parents. She also worked in an office in London ( in quite a high position for a woman at the time) until adopting her eldest when she was mid 30s.

So i don't think grammar school would've been a waste

I did university as day release with two kids. When I applied to do it my boss asked if I could do 5 days work in 4 days. I guaranteed I could do he approved it. Lunch hours became a thing of the past, uni days involved me going into the office before getting to uni for 9 am and lecture till 7 pm. It was a long five years but ultimately worth it.

Bruisername · 31/10/2025 11:16

Yes the uni thing is different - very few went and you could also have a good career without going.

the difference now is that women can go equally to men - broadly. There are still issues around certain subjects unfortunately.

feminism - women have equal access to university
economics - trying to make university access open to all meant fees were inevitable as was the devaluation of degrees

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:14

Tigerbalmshark · 31/10/2025 11:08

Oh yes, but if it wasn’t for feminism, every single woman married to a man on minimum wage would live in a four bedroom detached house, drive a Range Rover, and flit from Pilates to her nail appointment whilst a definitely-not-female army of cleaners, nannies and housekeepers sorted out her beautiful home.

That’s exactly how it was for literally everyone in the 70s, just in shades of orange and brown.

Oh don't remind me of the orange and brown. I'll have nightmares.

RubySquid · 31/10/2025 11:11

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 06:36

Yes but inflation is much higher now compared to average salaries. University for you guys back then was pretty much free right? Great for feminism… that choice… look at it now… £9k+ a year. Women in stem jobs is lower than ever. Women are in debt from uni. Men overall still get paid more. Yes, we don’t all have to go to uni, but nice to have the choice and not be in so much debt.

I think progress for women has stalled… under capitalism mostly. Those are my views. We’ve definitely benefitted in many ways, but progress has now stalled.

Far less people especially women went to uni. My sons late grandmother was a very intelligent woman. However she wasn't allowed the attend grammars schools like her brothers as she was a girl. And considered a waste of time as she'd just get married and have kids

She did get married at 22 and moved far from her parents. She also worked in an office in London ( in quite a high position for a woman at the time) until adopting her eldest when she was mid 30s.

So i don't think grammar school would've been a waste

TheignT · 31/10/2025 11:08

5128gap · 31/10/2025 11:02

Mm. Not sure about that. Because if as women we're going to take the praise for good men, are we going to be blamed for bad ones? We are the primary influence on our sons only until they start school. Not even necessarily that long if they have fathers in their lives. And while we can do our best to instil values, our sons are as much raised by their peers, male role models and Internet content as they are by their mothers. I think we do our best with the influence we have and then keep our fingers crossed they make friendships, interests and choices that align with our values.

That's why I said lots of people have to take responsibility. Certainly parents play a big part in bringing up their sons and daughters to understand what a good relationship looks like, when they are old enough those and daughters have to live the values they were brought up with.

To be clear I never said it was all down to mothers.

Just to add yes I do take credit for my part in how they have turned out, their father did his bit as did grandparents, particularly my mother, schools, scouts, guides etc but yes I did what I needed to do and it wasn't always easy.

Tigerbalmshark · 31/10/2025 11:08

childofthe607080s · 31/10/2025 09:10

Think is that u less house prices rose disproportional as a result of feminism then if women didn’t work you would still have the problem with house prices being unaffordable

because it’s not a case of women can’t afford to stay at home / it’s much broader than that - it’s not just women with young children who are struggling with house prices - it’s pensioners who rent, it’s young single people trying to find their way in the world and leave home -

Oh yes, but if it wasn’t for feminism, every single woman married to a man on minimum wage would live in a four bedroom detached house, drive a Range Rover, and flit from Pilates to her nail appointment whilst a definitely-not-female army of cleaners, nannies and housekeepers sorted out her beautiful home.

That’s exactly how it was for literally everyone in the 70s, just in shades of orange and brown.

ObelixtheGaul · 31/10/2025 11:04

Mrsnothingthanks · 31/10/2025 10:24

@ObelixtheGaul Again, totally agree.
I've been married twice.
First husband was very wealthy as desperate for me to give up my "unimportant job - not a career" (primary teacher) and stay at home permanently to look after the kids and do all of the housework. My wages were insignificant and, moreover, "emasculated him." He also wanted full financial control and would sometimes take my purse out of my handbag if he felt I was buying anything more than the essentials.
I didn't give up my career which he didn't like and God did I need that income when I left with my two young sons and he'd changed the locks, literally within hours. I slowly built my life back up.
I'm now remarried to a man who works in social care (very, very proud of the work he does and the difference he makes). He has supported me every step of the way and we are absolutely a team. We share everything - rent, bills, childcare, housework and so on.
My husband absolutely respects and supports my feminist values and that is
strongly reflected within our marriage. I personally have not, and never will, put up with a partner who fails to do so, regardless of how rich he may be.

How dreadful that you had that experience, and I am glad your life isn't like that now.

ObelixtheGaul · 31/10/2025 11:02

5128gap · 31/10/2025 10:23

I think what's happening is that some young women are feeling overwhelmed, because as women have taken on more historically male roles and responsibilities, men have failed to reciprocate. There are two options, continue the fight, this time on the personal level to ensure the men in their lives step up, or surrender, and say, OK, feminism tried, but men are too strong for us, so we've lost.
When life feels challenging already due to other factors, it seems easier to wave the white flag and accept a benign dictatorship over an ongoing battle for freedom. Especially if you're too young to have experienced what life was really like under the dictatorship.

I think that's a fair point in re: overwhelm. It makes it easier to gloss over the past, to imagine things were better, when the past is another country in which some of us never lived at all.

It's a lie we buy, not dissimilar to the one of the perfect life in the country, or abroad. Rose-tinted spectacles.

5128gap · 31/10/2025 11:02

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:47

Well maybe it isn't luck, maybe it's how I brought up my sons and obviously their sister didn't want a man who didnt measure up to her brothers. Actually it's rather patronising to just say oh it's luck. Maybe a lot of people to take some responsibility.

Mm. Not sure about that. Because if as women we're going to take the praise for good men, are we going to be blamed for bad ones? We are the primary influence on our sons only until they start school. Not even necessarily that long if they have fathers in their lives. And while we can do our best to instil values, our sons are as much raised by their peers, male role models and Internet content as they are by their mothers. I think we do our best with the influence we have and then keep our fingers crossed they make friendships, interests and choices that align with our values.

firef1y · 31/10/2025 10:55

Are you allowed to vote?
Can you open a bank account or credit card in your own name?
Do you have the right to say no to your husband?
Are you protected from being sacked just because you got pregnant or (in the case of teachers) because you got married?
Do you expect to be paid the same as your male colleague who has the same job title and experience as you and not significantly less because you're female?

If the answer to these is yes then feminism has definitely made your life better

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 10:49

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:47

Well maybe it isn't luck, maybe it's how I brought up my sons and obviously their sister didn't want a man who didnt measure up to her brothers. Actually it's rather patronising to just say oh it's luck. Maybe a lot of people to take some responsibility.

No, I do not mean to be patronising. I have a lot of female friends, 30s, wonderful women. Single. Can’t find a good man. I’m pleased you raised your sons well, but it’s also not always down to parenting alone. I do think stars need to align sometimes to find a good relationship… I don’t think it’s patronising to say that, it’s the reality for most people. Both men and women looking for partners.

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:47

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 06:40

Obviously your family is very lucky… this isn’t the case for a lot of women unfortunately and finding a male partner like this can be down to luck as well. I would be careful to put the blame on the woman. I think men need to step up, but I’m not sure how we encourage that.

Well maybe it isn't luck, maybe it's how I brought up my sons and obviously their sister didn't want a man who didnt measure up to her brothers. Actually it's rather patronising to just say oh it's luck. Maybe a lot of people to take some responsibility.

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 10:47

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:44

We tried, he lived in a flat share with two other guys Monday to Friday and was home weekends. I was at home with kids, dogs and full-time job. I was prepared to carry on but economically it just wasn't worth it, the cost of journeys home, costs for flat and financially we might have broken even but overall were probably worse off. We thought with the extra money we could save up and eventually move but prices were rising, we found savings his pay rise was a pipedream.

If we could have done it we'd be so much better off now, house in the SE to sell for retirement, higher pension but it wasn't to be.

It’s a shame. It is hard. I can’t imagine being on minimum wage down here.

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:44

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 06:38

It does indeed. We don’t live in London btw. Too expensive. We are outside. However for what we pay per month on our mortgage, we could be in a huge detached house up north. I am supporting my DH to work in the industry he wants to. I am ok with that as I want him to be happy, but it’s wishful thinking sometimes.

We tried, he lived in a flat share with two other guys Monday to Friday and was home weekends. I was at home with kids, dogs and full-time job. I was prepared to carry on but economically it just wasn't worth it, the cost of journeys home, costs for flat and financially we might have broken even but overall were probably worse off. We thought with the extra money we could save up and eventually move but prices were rising, we found savings his pay rise was a pipedream.

If we could have done it we'd be so much better off now, house in the SE to sell for retirement, higher pension but it wasn't to be.

childofthe607080s · 31/10/2025 10:41

Given at times inflation and mortgage interest rates beat 15% no salaries didn’t increase in line with- that’s why the winter of discontent happened - when the lights were not kept on

then the repossession crisis when so many lost their homes and the money they had invested in them - I was impressed that in 2008 the (Labour?) government managed to avoid repeating that in the banking crisis

instead of thinking that others had things better, and giving into self pity , think instead how to work together to make things better

TheignT · 31/10/2025 10:35

PeonyPatch · 31/10/2025 06:36

Yes but inflation is much higher now compared to average salaries. University for you guys back then was pretty much free right? Great for feminism… that choice… look at it now… £9k+ a year. Women in stem jobs is lower than ever. Women are in debt from uni. Men overall still get paid more. Yes, we don’t all have to go to uni, but nice to have the choice and not be in so much debt.

I think progress for women has stalled… under capitalism mostly. Those are my views. We’ve definitely benefitted in many ways, but progress has now stalled.

University back then was much more limited, telling me it was free when I couldn't go is pretty insulting.

I'm not sure how you are working out salaries being relative to inflation. As I was earning half what a man doing the same job inflation was tough. We didn't have NMW either so sometimes you'd go a long time before you got a pay rise.