To think Toby Carvery is working class ?

I'd say you are middle class in that case. Too well off for help but not well off enough to live, because of the cost of living rise.

It's not catching you know. 🤣

💯 this

Yes I would say it’s very working class, though I’ve never been to one personally, because it gives off the impression of being working class and I wouldn’t like that very much.

Yes, DS is definitely having an entirely different childhood to mine or DH’s. He has parents with professional jobs and a comfortable income, and lives in a big house in an area where lots of the neighbours are medics, architects or academics. When he has to do work experience for school, we’ll be able to get him all kinds of opportunities. People having yachts isn’t alien to him. But, on the other hand, unlike many of his established MC/UMC friends, he has grandparents and aunts and uncles living in small council houses, and working as delivery drivers, street sweepers, builder-labourers etc. He knows the people who empty the bins, who clean the school after hours, who pick up the litter because they’re family, not some category of ‘people who do jobs that I don’t have to think about’. That still marks him out as ‘new MC’.

I’m extremely middle class and I love Toby Carvery. Mainly because I like loads of veg with my roast and no gravy, and cranberry sauce with the ‘wrong’ meat. My partner likes a much beiger roast dinner, we like different meats, and we can both be happy.

I feel comfortable in a lot of working class places being from that background myself. Our local TC is really downmarket though and more underclass than working class. It just seems like overeaters anonymous to me. I like a proper pubby pub as much as the next person but it isn't like that at all. It's rough, poor quality and unpleasant, which I don't equate with working class.

Ultimately if you don't like it.... Don't go?

I get your point. But your kids may well grow up middle class

I have three postgraduate degrees. I’d class myself as ‘educated WC’. My education hasn’t magically removed the experience of an impoverished childhood, parents who left school at 12 and worked all their lives in low-paid manual jobs, and extended family who worked as binmen, street sweepers, cleaners etc.

So what class do you consider yourself?

Nah - MN is quite clear that it’s the more intellectual pursuits such as theatre and rooms full of dusty books that make people middle class. Oh and no grey decor to be seen in their houses. An inherited pile and an old land rover makes you upper or upper-middle. Focusing on income is very common. And I don’t mean common in a polite way.

(And in case my sarcasm isn’t clear this is not my view).

It is op, and? I'm middle class and often pop in after a hard day's wok. I like it too......

Hmm what about the WC who don't get any benefits, myself included

me and my parent went to uni but I grew up in a high rise block with a parent on benefits. went to a crap state school but my parent listened to radio 4 and now owns a home outright. i'm self-employed but socially housed.

I'm working class and I think it is tied to income. That's what makes our lives different.

So true.

Well no but those on mumsnet always put income and class together. Along with if you went to uni then you are MC. Strange as my graduate son is still working class

Lean meat and fresh vegetables ? But surely the working class only eat fried chicken 🙄🙄

I'd kill for a Toby to open locally.
I live in a rather nice village in norfolk

It’s a place that caters for those with less money. I have relatives who don’t have much money but really hate it when people offer to pay for them. We regularly go to a Toby Carvery when we meet - their choice, not somewhere I’d choose - and it’s perfectly adequate. No need to be snobby.

@user793847984375948 it's only social mobility if you believe that factors such as education and interests like Radio 4 or reading books are middle class rather than working class, so back to the offensive stereotypes.

In fact, I'm warming to the idea that there are two classes, working class and upper class/independently wealthy. Because it means we can put aside the divide between working and middle class, the latter seemingly having a lot to say about the working classes, that are based on no more than stereotypes. Plus the 'squeezed middle' are usually only in that position because they've made expensive choices that trip them up if CoL or lost income comes into play.

So we're all working class unless due to age or accumulated assets, we become independently wealthy, which I'm well on the way to becoming due to historical pension entitlements meaning I soon won't need to work for a living, my working class background here being an advantage, because I've not fallen into a middle class big house expensive lifestyle that moves the goalpost of financial independence much further away.

I can count on one hand how many tim a I have been to a Toby Carvery (not my choice) because I like to eat things I can't cook myself, but the last time I went I had a beautiful portion of beef and I do think the larger the beef joint the nicer the meat.
Not sure if I am talking about the same place as a PP but our nearest is in a very expensive area, in fact it's next to a Premier Inn which is next to a private hospital and I imagine that's part of its clientele.

The quality of food and the cooking there isn't great. It's obvious really for the price. The price won't support either expensive ingredients, or top quality people to cook them.

If a person does't appreciate that then they either don't know what good food tastes like or don't care.

I am not a huge food snob but have been lucky enough to experience plenty of decent food on someone elses budget. I know what good food tastes like. There are plenty of people around who haven't for example see the ones on previous threads that think Miller and Carter serve crap steak (they don't).

If the food isn't great then what is the motivation to go there. Maybe because a) it's cheap b) they don't care about the quality of it or c) there's a lot of it.

Otherwise they are wasting their time getting a sub optimal experience.

I was being sarcastic there I actually agree with you that none of those things matter. Just examples of things I’ve read on mn. I once read a book by mr Karl Marx himself (not a commie just curious) it was very outdated and boring. If you don’t think it’s based on income but you also don’t think it’s the above hobbies/intrests/life choices then what exactly does it mean to you? Is it just a vibe? Like one of the 72 genders gender fluid people think you can identify as?

Not my cup of tea I find them all (Toby, Harvesters, Brewers Fayre, Wetherspoons etc) all over priced for the quality of food you get.
I can cook a roast way cheaper then the cost for a family of 4.

If we go out for dinner or lunch we tend to find a local independent place usually works out the same or cheaper (our area does lumch deals), better food and is putting into the local economy more.