To think Toby Carvery is working class ?

Ok so how does it work for me. I've live in a fairly affluent town. Have friends from unemployed lady ,( due to disability) tax barrister, accountants, shop workers, lorry drivers,teachers head of wages, GP and lady who lunches. My kids school friends had parents from the same kind of range.. So wide range of influences

You've never heard the saying " money can't buy class" then have you?

Does it matter? the example came from my best friend whose dad has been director of waste for 25 years and has many refuse collector friends. But even so, again, you’ve jumped on a tiny detail after demanding I give you a big picture answer

Is the director of waste for the council likely to introduce his children to refuse collectors though? My father wax a refuse collector for a little while and never introduced me to any of his colleagues let alone his boss.

My children have only briefly met one of my colleagues when I bumped into her in the street

There is no doubt of that 😂 but you try getting a bricklayer in Cornwall who can work 5 days a week for 9 months on a new estate. There is, as you know, a massive shortage of trades and some parts of the country are worse than others.

One of the markers of social economic status is the variety of types of people you’re exposed to.

if for example (and this is an example don’t start berating me about it) if your dad is a refuse collector, and only knows other refuse collectors socially, then you have a narrow access to diversity.

if your dad is say, the director of waste for the council, you may know refuse collectors, but you may also know people of various professions; local politicians; consultants and professional advisors, local business people, etc.

I prefer a Toby Carvery to many pretentious posh places.

I’m not from the UK so I thought Toby Carvery was a person. This thread was not what I expected. I want a Toby Carvery now though

Please answer a couple of these questions bambam it took me ages to type that out haha

You are being overcharged then. We charge £40 plus VAT per hour and for that the worker will be earning approx half of that.

This is very vague and what is meant by “access to diversity “ ? Not being sarcastic genuinely curious about how you define it now?

And?

I consider myself middle class and go there sometimes. It's a good value, nice carvery.

It wasn’t even builders I mentioned it was bricklayers 😂 and yes my organisation is paying the equivalent of that (up to £1k per day) in cold spots in the uk.

Cultural and finance capital (not income) but also background, culture, family history, location, access to diversity, access to power, your job/ source of income, the people you surround yourself with and align yourself to, life experience- many many things make you who you are.

Your average builder isn't earning £100k to be fair. Ones like my dad who after years of being on the tools set up their own business and now employ other people will of course. I recon the average person on our payroll earns between £40-50K with managers earning more.

I don’t know anyone in real life who talks about what class they are only on here. I don’t have a chip on my shoulder if they can go on about their grandfather’s job while telling middle class people we’re “privileged “ even though they earn twice as much money why can’t I point out it’s a pile of horse shit?

the hobbies/intrests stuff is funny on here I’ve been called middle class for having books in my house. Lower class for having a baby at 16 and now working class for liking Toby Carvery. Obviously everyone likes different things and has different things going on throughout their life how do you pigeon hole that?

so if you say it’s not income and me and you both agree it’s not hobbies then what is it? Just whether you work in a trade or an office? If so why does it even matter when there’s such a variation in salaries there with like you say some builders apparently earning 100k? What’s the point in all the threads? Why do working class people on here keep saying they need affirmative action even though some builders are apparently way wealthier than your average middle classer?

I think most people probably could tell you 5 things about themselves that would make you think they were working class and 5 things about themselves that would make you think they were middle class. I's all very blurry IMO.

That said, if you've got supportive family that value education and cultural capital, have been to university and worked in professional jobs it's definitely an advantage.

So is it a mixture of cultural and financial capital, and income in your view?

No one, apart from you and usernumbers, thinks class is related to income, so there was nothing to establish there.

Why do you think they’re showing off? You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about this. Why can’t people talk about their background or upbringing without “going on”?!

I’m sorry you know people who are so dull they continuously talk about their grandfathers job but it’s worth pointing out you’ve accused me of the same on this thread when I did nothing of the sort so maybe you’re an unreliable narrator?

Oh are you talking about Toby Carvery? I thought we had travelled to an alternative universe.

I was also thinking that for some people TC will be a treat, a celebration even whereas for others it will be a "cheap" can't be arsed to cook trip. Nothing to do with class but plenty to do with money.

So now we’ve established that middle class doesn’t mean rich. And if a plumber really earns 100k and lives in a council house he’s way better off than a middle class family on 30k with a mortgage to pay then that begs the question what is the POINT in those people (not you but perhaps someone else who likes talking about how working class they are and how middle class have it easycan explain) going on about how they’re working class? Is it just to show off their dad or grandad had a manly job? Is it mating call for other people who like feeling sorry for themselves when they haven’t actually got any real problems?

And obviously the hobbies/intrests stuff is bullshit me and you both agree so is it just how “manly” daddy’s job was?

It does what it says on the tin……
if you want posh…..then go posh.
next.

100% agree.

i grew up in poverty in a family who were middle class in their home country but a series of unfortunate events led to a catastrophic reduction in circumstances.

However I was exposed to literature, art, classical music and theatre - I played the piano, acted, danced etc.

I was incongruously ‘well spoken’ given the South London council estate I grew up on and have confused people over the years as the assumptions made about me are often incorrect - I meet people who expect me to be a ‘snob’ (absolutely am not) and others who think they can be patronising or ‘educate’ me when my knowledge exceeds theirs.

I don’t think anyone should feel guilty about privilege. I think they should recognise it and use it positively. I also think privilege is a more
sophisticated concept than paying a mortgage or earning £50k or not.

you don’t strike me as someone who has middle class privilege, no.

if you don’t live off capital - investments, property- you’re working class. You need to work to survive. The clue is in the name.

If you need to work but have a background of what is often described as ‘cultural capital’ (books, university, etc), and/or your income is very large, then you might be described as being middle/upper working class. But it’s pretty irrelevant.

The obsession with drawing imaginary class distinctions is a bullshit delusion promoted by the 1% - to stop the rest of us notice we’re all in the same leaking boat & getting together to change things.