To hesitate to move back from US to UK because of terrible state of NHS

There are obviously issues with the NHS. But you will read about the bad more than the good.

I’ve had two life threatening health issues in the last year. Once my GP arranged for me to have a blood test the day I went in, the out of hours GP called me that night to tell me to go to a&e and I went straight there and was immediately given a bed. The second was cancer where I had surgery within 3 weeks of diagnosis, delayed only by needing an mri and some other tests. I think mostly (not always) it works well where there’s a genuine emergency.

Maybe I've been lucky but in my family any issues in the last few years have been dealt with by the NHS well and very promptly. Both me and DH have had cancer scares in the last 2 years and were both seen within 2 weeks. I was seen by a consultant 10 days after being referred by a GP after an issue picked up on ultrasound. The next day I had an MRI and although it fortunately wasn't cancer was referred to to the relevant department and has surgery within 6 months. The surgeon was fantastic and even took 30 mins from his busy day to call me to go over all my concerns and extra information I wanted him to have. Ok so the nurses in the post op ward weren't amazing (bed side manner wise) but they did their job.

DH was found to be anaemic after finding blood in his poo. He had a FIT test within a week and was fast tracked for an endoscopy and colononscopy this month. The people in that department were lovely. So kind and caring. He had a large adenoma removed there and then and because of that they are rechecking him in 3 years.

These are 2 of many experiences in my family recently. I know some people have issues and I know the NHS is struggling but it is still a damn good institution and I would chose it over private 95% of the time.

@WildLimePoet You're clearly deluded but I'll humour you momentarily...

Do you not think the reason I mentioned working in the US for a US employer might be because your whole premise is that the US is so great while the UK and Europe are utterly crap, when in fact some of us see exactly what is going on 'on the ground'?

The US economy is not "doing great under Trump" at all. US stocks are currently flying but that's not 'the US economy'.

Instead of telling the rest of us how stupid we are and how you have all the facts, you should do some work on the veracity of what you're posting.

I’m so grateful for it.
They saved my DS’s life when he was just a tiny baby, the ongoing specialist care from his consultant and the dietetics department was outstanding for the years they were looking after him. The NHS midwives who attended my home births. The paramedic who held my hand the entire way to the hospital while I held my baby during the scariest medical emergency I’ve ever experienced - incredible people doing their best with the shit-sandwich they are presented with every single day.
Also quite lovely to not have extortionate medical bills arrive in the post.
My SIL had a baby a couple of weeks ago - hospital birth with an epidural. She has health insurance but it’s still going to cost her $4500 out of pocket after insurance 🫣🫣🫣🫣

I've just got chat GTP. (I know, but it's the best estimate I could come up with) To estimate the cost of the hospital treatment child had went seriously ill. You're looking at $3-4 million. The likely out of pocket expense with reasonably good health insurance would be $30,000 to $100,000.

In the UK, our only expense was car parking and our food, excluding lots of earnings. In America I would have had to have continued working or risk losing the health insurance for my child. Or she would have been covered under public programs, that would have been an administrative hell at a time when my only care was whether she would live.

No, it's not perfect, but when it needs to be it can be and often is amazing. There's no way I'd move to somewhere like America with a health condition. I have peace of mind here.

It’s a shame you won’t educate me because you’re a natural teacher. I think it’s the warm charm. I’m just hanging on your every word…

I never understand all these ‘massive bill’ statements for the US healthcare posts. My employer pays 85% of my insurance premium. They put money into a medical savings account every paycheck which can be used on medical, dental, or vision. Insurance has a max out of pocket, so your insurance might be billed a lot, but you don’t personally pay it. Plus our income is 3x it was in the UK so even if we met our out of pocket every year, which we have never even been close, then we’d still be quids in. Personally I think you’d be kind of crazy moving back to the UK. The majority of my UK relatives are just fed up with the way things are over there. I absolutely love my life in the US and feel very grateful to have had this opportunity.

Ha! I have the reverse situation where I would like to move back to the US. Born in Britain, spent a good chunk of adult life living on both coasts, then came back here to have kids. Now desperate to leave UK but realistically it has to be here or the US and the political situation there is even more dire than here.

If you are a high earner and have no chronic health conditions that limit your ability to work, you are much better off in the US. Have you investigated just how much lower your salary will be here? Certainly in my industry the difference is insane. It’s hard to compare cost of living because it so depends on the two areas you are comparing, different things are expensive and lifestyles are different anyway. But generally taxes and cost of living are very high here and you don’t get good public services to match. State education is generally better here or at least there is less inequality, private school fees vs earnings are insane.

For people saying you can pay for private healthcare here just like you can in the US, have you actually experienced both systems? I have good BUPA and Medicare coverage here but good private infrastructure simply doesn’t exist in the UK. If I needed a serious op I would not want to have it in a private hospital. For things like gynae, routine stuff, yes BUPA and a private GP is fine.

@WhatIsTheCharge i completely agree that the NHS model is the better one when it works well.

Oh you mentioned France without knowing what you were talking about about and now you want to say you didn’t really mean to talk about France. Cute.

Look I have plenty to say about the other countries, but it’s not my job to educate you about the basics. You could educate yourself, rather than embarrassing yourself.

You could easily look at Eurozone performance and debt to GDP ratio. As for bond markets, you seem to be triggered by the use of that. Is that because you accidentally googled it just now and saw UK’s gilt yields. Did you figure out what you read. Do you now understand how dire the situation is? I suspect not.

My and my family’s recent experiences of the NHS in different specialities in three separate regions have been generally good to excellent, including GP services. I’m scheduled for a procedure this week that I know would cost me £2000-£3000 privately and would have saved me only about a fortnight’s wait had I gone down the private route.
Where things go wrong they can go badly wrong, and staff are often overworked and poorly treated. I feel for them. But when the NHS works well it can work very well, and I suspect that it mostly does.

oh is this like, when raging, screaming hysterics turn up at the service counter of a shop, don’t get a refund for the manky old coat they’ve clear worn for weeks, and then say ‘I’m a manager in retail you know, I wanna speak to your manager’.

‘I work for a US company’ is that meant to be some kind of flex? If that’s your come back after you tried to hurl insults, then I’m embarrassed for you.

We are returning to the U.K. from the US in a month.
I guess my big question is: if you stay in the US, are you in a financial position where you’ll be able to handle the very real possibility that your insurance premium may well double or triple in price as a result of the current tit-for-tat over healthcare at the centre of the government shutdown?
If the subsidies don’t get approved, the insurance companies will absolutely say “well, we are going to make our money from somewhere”……and that somewhere is going to be people’s premiums.
The most alarming report I’ve seen so far is a couple in their 60’s, previously paying $400-something per month, are now being quoted over $2k per month.
One of my biggest gripes of life in the US is the for-profit healthcare system. It’s completely inhumane. Yeah, you can see a doctor when you want to and can get treatment for non-emergent stuff in a timely manner…..but the financial burden on the average earner who doesn’t qualify for MediCare/MedicAid is crippling. My DH used to be a firefighter/EMT and it wasn’t uncommon for them to be called by people’s neighbours/family members, show up to the address and find the person literally on the brink of death because they were worried about the cost of calling an ambulance and the subsequent treatment in a hospital.

… and all the other countries with higher rate tax payers leaving? Anything to say about them? Because it is very clear that France was not my bar. I would have just mentioned France and not the other 5 or 6 countries that immediately came to mind. But selectively using information to build a one-eyed argument is par for the course for the ‘true patriot’.

Bond markets trade heavily on confidence - that IS the real world. I’m not sure you understand the words you are using.

Given that I and DH are both the 'top rate' (additional rate) tax payers you talk about and both work for US companies with mostly US colleagues - and I myself work in the US and further afield 4+ months p/year, I see your posts for exactly what they are.

"People like you" are the ones who need to broaden your horizons and realise that what you're being fed by GBeebies and Reform Ltd are maybe not the gospel you take them to be.

@localnotail Tbf, California is an extortionate state to live in, v. beautiful but so expensive. Health insurance could be that expensive there.

That’s another reason why this US vs. UK healthcare debate is complicated, because the American regional differences are also huge. The OP might be getting a good deal where she currently lives. 🤷

So because France is a basket case with the debt to GDP ratio, that’s your bar?

I suspect basic fiscal and economic facts and reality is lost on you too, and you probably have no clue about the basics.

You seem to be confusing confidence with magical fantasy. Like lala land. That’s not how the bond markets work. The real world with real money is a tad different.

I think a lot of Brits would avoid the US in part because of it's healthcare system which seems to put profit above care.
As lots have said there is much wrong with the NHS but you will never be refused care until you show insurance.
It's at it's worst for long waits for none critical conditions. People who need surgery or treatment for a condition which isn't life threatening but is painful. You can always pay for those.
It's at it's best for the urgent.
I've a long list of health conditions, including a history of breast cancer. I doubt any insurance company would touch me.

Last week I rang my GP at 10am about a matter which could have been serious. I saw her at 11am and she sent me to the local SDEC (same day emergency care) who were expecting me. I was seen by a doctor and had bloods and x-ray and was discharged with drugs within 90 minutes. Seriously impressed with the whole system.

We have no complaints about the NHS. When I suddenly fell very ill a couple of years ago, a call to 111 quickly brought an ambulance, I was bluelighted to hospital, where I stayed for 3 weeks. TBH I couldn’t fault the care I received. Maybe I was lucky, but dh had similar for a more minor illness.

Well, this is what I was told! I doubt anyone I know pays it themselves - but I was told this is what it would be if paid privately. I would tell you the name of the insurance but I cant remember )))

You’re discussing A&E and life-saving care, OP. It differs.
A&E for example will always triage patients based on severity. Yes there can be long waits, mainly due to people not always using the service for accidents and emergencies. For example, I had pneumonia which was treated initially via my GP and I was then transferred directly to SDEC (same day emergency care) for x-rays and a scan.

I currently am in treatment for breast cancer within the NHS, and things are moving quickly. I was diagnosed at the start of August, two months on I’ve already had two surgeries and genetic testing, and one set of results.

I do have private healthcare via my work but actually chose to stay in the NHS for my cancer treatment, I’m lucky to live in an area of the U.K. with incredible cancer centres.

Did you know that for people like you, who struggle with imagination and originality, there are now tools like chat GPT that you can use.

I know that France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Ireland, Norway and Denmark, among others, are also seeing HNWI leaving in number, in pursuit of more favourable tax arrangements. Also third world countries, I suppose.

I know that the gap between the rich and poor in the UK is one of the widest in the world - trickle down ain’t trickling, and running the country in deference of rich folk hasn’t benefited anyone other than rich folk. You doff your cap though.

Confidence isn’t all it takes. But it is what the markets trade on.

Anyway. This is a pointless conversation. I’ll just say that your perspective on the UK is unpatriotic and toxic. I’m sad you hate your country so much.

Because the OP literally refers to “the sorry state of the NHS”.