Am I a dickhead, friend and her child.

I agree with sounding out a few people beforehand so you know enough of you can make it. Then post 'Hi all, time for a catch up, anyone fancy (non child friendly venue) at 8pm?'

Ideally make it something that DEFINITELY isn't child friendly, i.e. seeing a band at an 18 plus venue, rather than something Angela can vary to a different time.

If she says 'Oh that doesn't work with Lucy's bedtime, how about (family friendly place) at 5pm?' Just go back with 'Ah that's a pity you can't make it, see you at the next one.' Or 'Sorry Angela, I really fancy X this time, let us know if you can make it, if not, no worries, see you next time.'

Then when you're all there minus Angela, take the opportunity to have a stern word with the others and agree no more wet lettucing (brilliant turn of phrase by that poster) - from now on unless it's Lucy's birthday party you go where and when you want, which will sometimes be adult focussed venues and if Angela and family can't make it tough luck.

You sound like you don’t really like Angela tbh

Start a new WhatsApp group without them and meet regularly. Keep the old WhatsApp group and meet the dreaded Lucy occasionally.

Martin and Angela need to learn how to have separate groups of friends. So your group is the pre baby, adult group.

They then need to make new friends through baby groups, nursery, dad groups. These will be their Parent Friends.

The 2 groups can co exist alongside each other, never need to meet and can provide rewarding friendships for years to come.

Forcing pre baby friends to socialise with their toddler is never going to work.

Just say it’s an adult meet so no, you won’t be making it lunch, although it’ll be a shame if that means she can’t join you

Why does the child's dad need to go though - he's a tag- along, not a member of the friendship group. The dad of the other child stays home if they don't have a babysitter. Small children can't help but be the focus of attention and this isn't a toddler and parents meet-up, it's adult friends.

Gobsmacked that people would entertain this more than once.

Set up a new WhatsApp without her, for evening outings, problem solved.

OK but my point is parents of babies/small children find it difficult to meet in the evenings. So if you care about the friendship, you'd agree to meet them for lunch once in a while, as well as keeping with your dinner plans.

It's reached a stage where if someone suggests a dinner, Angela will say no it has to be lunch for Lucy and Martin to join. If someone suggests going for a drink on only a days notice, we're told oh that's not child friendly.

I'd take that as "it has to be lunch IF Lucy and Martin join" - and maybe if you want Angela there. But I'd still make it clear when a plan for a specific event has been set - "we're going bar/club-hopping down the King's Road from 8 PM til closing" - and whoever wants to come can come. If someone can't - like Angela (and Martin) if there's no one to watch Lucy - then OK, thanks for RSVP'ing, we'll miss you - and carry on because there are enough people who do want to go and can go to make it worthwhile. If Angela never comes to ANY event with the group, maybe whoever's closest to her in the group can talk with her one on one and see if it's possible to come up with a way for her to join - maybe John would be willing to watch Kate AND Lucy for an evening, if Martin won't step up? But don't rule out that she may have decided just never to go out without Martin and Lucy, and if so that's not the group's problem.

That’s a shame for this woman if Angela insists on bringing her toddler the whole time, it’s thoughtless imo.

Wow. I can’t imagine getting into this kind of a scenario because the only people I remain friends with with longevity, are those I can be myself with and moan about the hardships of kids. Someone who was so oblivious that people don’t want to hang out with kids sometimes - we would not have a lot in common I fear 😆

Similar situation, girls evening wine & dinner. One group members husband suggested she bring the 2 year old out for the evening with us all because “none of them have seen the baby for ages, so surely must want to spend time with him and see him”… husband wanted to spend the evening gaming, couldn’t be fucked with the child it turns out.

I was the one that had to gently say that 90% of the group would refuse to come if she brought the baby as we all have young kids and the whole point of the night out is adult time away from kids.
it genuinely didn’t occur to her that no one wanted to spend an evening with her child. She was shocked.
It didn’t go down at all well unfortunately.

Drinks on x date and y place from 7pm

Lucy’s parents - that’s unfair

organiser - this is what we’re doing this time

Be blunt. They're not considering the friend group, as they obviously now want it to be a family orientated meet-up.

Next time, say this is where and when we'll be meeting up for an adult get together, and sorry, but no room for changes - or along those lines.

Do Angela and Martin ever take the initiative to suggest and book something child friendly, or do they always expect others to make the plans AND accommodate their kid?

We are a group of 5 friends, 3 married, 1 single, 1 recently separated. I was the first of the group to have children I have 2. One other married friend has 2 children as well. And she behaves like she’s the only person to have had kids. Can’t come husbands on nights but welcome to come round mine for a brew instead!!! Any once fancy a late lunch at x Sunday o there’s nothing for the kids there! Well they weren’t invited! we’ll still go out! This caused a lot of trouble a few months back when she said we were selfish!! Sorry but I am not organising child care/sorting out with my husband whether he can do kids clubs etc to go and sit and have a brew with her kids running round!? Just tell them no!

I probably did 80-90 percent with kids with my close friends because I respected their new commitments and wanted to build a relationship with their kids. To me that’s what you do when you care about people.

You wait, when her daughter is a teenager she'll bring her along to everything, too. And she will tell her everything that you have told her in private.

Arrange a date and an evening event with a couple of others in the group and then once that’s determined, put it in the group for the others to accept or decline. It will be a venue that Lucy can’t go to and if there is any pushback just say “sorry you can’t make this one, but will hopefully see you at a catch up soon” and repeat that as many times as necessary.

Unfortunately some people genuinely think everything revolves around their precious child and that everyone needs to go out of their way to accommodate the child. Most people have no interest at all in other people’s children, no matter how polite and nice about them they are. They definitely don’t want their socialising dictated to by a toddler.

Maybe see who can do lunch and who can do the evening. Lunch could be just one or two people.

Or do an early dinner for everyone and drinks after for those that can stay out?

or do a what’s app vote and suggest 2 dinners and one lunch time and say which ever gets the most votes?

That sounds absolutely exhausting! And no, you’re definitely not being a dickhead. I actually think you’re being way too accommodating but you can gently, and easily, change that. Next time, just message and say something like, ‘How about a night at the pub?’ If they say they can’t make it because of the little one, just reply with, ‘No worries, we’ll stick with this plan for those who can make it and we can plan another catch-up with the kids another time!’

Say ok, we’ll do it another time with you guys

then start a new WhatsApp group with the people who can make it, just got that evening. You can always keep that group alongside the other group

just for practical reasons