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Don't have kids you can't afford!

895 replies

user793847984375948 · 25/10/2025 10:57

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Ladamesansmerci · 25/10/2025 19:18

Childcare should just be affordable 🤷

It is ridiculous that two people working full time minimum wage (but necessary jobs, such as in a supermarket, hospital porters, etc) jobs cannot easily afford children. Also I honestly think that you have been well and truly duped and hoodwinked by capitalism if it's a crazy idea that some people might want to work part time and look after their children. Do you truly think it's good for children to be separated from their primary caregiver so much from such a young age? Just because something is the way it is, it doesn't mean it should be.

Also our birthrate has declined significantly. We need children because they are our future workforce. Say goodbye to your state pensions. And say goodbye to a functioning social care sector for the elderly. We need to be encouraging people with normal working class/public sector jobs to have children. These are the kind of people being priced out of having kids.

Children shouldn't just be for the middle and upper classes.

Also, our perceptions of what children need have changed. Poor people have always had kids. My dad (80yo) is from a mining background and was one of five. They didn't have much, but they were well fed and looked after and happy. They didn't have holidays, clubs, hobbies, etc, but we seem to think children can't be without those things in modern society.

Ubertomusic · 25/10/2025 19:13

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:43

They can get out the same policies which are tax deductible. I did when I was self employed. In fact it's even more crucial!

What do you mean no social security??? I kept my NI contributions up to date when I was self employed. It's a conscious decision whether to keep paying or not.

Edited

I had no statutory maternity pay. No sick pay. No unemployment benefits. NI will cover state pension which by the time I will be allowed to retire will pay for bread and water, if any. I could go on but surely you know all this yourself if you were ever self-employed? 🤔

MidnightPatrol · 25/10/2025 19:10

BatchCookBabe · 25/10/2025 17:53

Good grief! It's not worth going out to work if nursery is that much!

£30,000 a year for NURSERY?!😱 Glad I had mine when I did. (More than a quarter century ago.)

.

Edited

It gets worse - I’ve got two…!

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 19:09

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 19:08

The fucker is alive and well and living in the new forest 😭😭

Yes sorry I've posted to apologise for getting you confused with another poster x

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 19:08

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 19:05

So your DH didn't have death in employment benefit? Unusual with a high paid job no?

The fucker is alive and well and living in the new forest 😭😭

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 19:08

No5ChalksRoad · 25/10/2025 18:06

When you decided to produce four human beings, did you contemplate what would happen in the event of job loss, economic downturn, divorce? Or just proceed with indulging your "wants" without planning for worst-case scenarios?

How did people with such high incomes end up with so few assets? Were you married?

I can't muster much sympathy for people who just blithely assume the world will always go their way, and if it doesn't, someobody else will pick up the costs.

Oh no oh no, I just slug my eggs up in the air and where the sperm landed, it landed and hoped for the best
People earning 200 grand a year tend to be dreadfully irresponsible in my experience 🙄🙄
You don’t seem to have adequate Reading comprehension skills as all of your questions have been answered in the previous posts
Hopefully you’ve not bred. You’d barely be able to manage to complete the child benefit form.

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 19:08

Lucelady · 25/10/2025 19:06

@twistyizzy HRs husband didn't die he bogged off.

Ah sorry wrong poster, its a fast and lomg thread! Thanks 😊 Apologies @HRchatter I got you confused

Lucelady · 25/10/2025 19:06

@twistyizzy HRs husband didn't die he bogged off.

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 19:05

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 19:02

I am insured up to the tits 🙄
They pay out for a certain period of time and once you’re done, you’re done with regards to mortgage payments.
School fees didn’t really matter. My kids pass the 11+ And just walked in.
Not sure what one can do about a dick that’s operating the husband’s brain. Let me know if you find Insurance for that. I’m sure we’ll all be lining up to take out those policies.

So your DH didn't have death in employment benefit? Unusual with a high paid job no?

Ubertomusic · 25/10/2025 19:02

shuggles · 25/10/2025 18:44

@Ubertomusic They are paying 60% of all IT already, and how exactly is that different?

GDP is gross domestic product. In crude terms, it's how much "stuff" the country produces.

Only a fraction of GDP is paid into the tax pot. They are two different things.

I can't believe this is something that I have to explain.

Feel free to educate yourself.
https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/Income-tax-and-the-earnings-distribution_.pdf

I still don't see why you expect the high earners to pay even more. I don't think they're as stupid as you try to paint them (I know you were trying to insult me but sadly I'm not a high earner so your awesome wit was misplaced 😁 )

And I don't understand why I should fund your pension if you don't want to pay tax being childless 🤷‍♀️

https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/Income-tax-and-the-earnings-distribution_.pdf

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 19:02

Lemonadepie · 25/10/2025 18:20

How about taking out insurance that insures you against exactly those risks?

I am insured up to the tits 🙄
They pay out for a certain period of time and once you’re done, you’re done with regards to mortgage payments.
School fees didn’t really matter. My kids pass the 11+ And just walked in.
Not sure what one can do about a dick that’s operating the husband’s brain. Let me know if you find Insurance for that. I’m sure we’ll all be lining up to take out those policies.

OhFeckWhatNow · 25/10/2025 19:00

Unrulyscrumptious · 25/10/2025 17:59

But anyone could argue your singledom is a lifestyle choice, you don't have to be in a romantic partnership to split the cost of living with someone rather than choosing to live alone. Why should you have less tax liability because you don't want to with someone else to save money? That's how you sound when you talk about other people's life choices.

I don't agree with the PP's bizarre take on not paying tax for things you don't personally use, but this is nonsense. It's not a "lifestyle choice" to be single or live alone. If there is any choice at all it's because the alternative is unbearable - should you have to be unhappy and uncomfortable in your own home because there isn't anyone reasonable to share with? Living with a romantic life partner is worlds away from sharing with any old random person because you need someone to live with.

I would love to not live alone, but it is a nightmare trying to find suitable people to live with once you're past a certain age. If you do manage to find someone, it's an unstable situation as they could meet a partner and move out, leaving you with a property too big to afford, or having to move house, or desperately trying to find another person to move in. Honestly look around you and consider who in your life you'd live with.

If living alone was truly some enviable life choice, people wouldn't want to move in with partners. It's amazing people don't appreciate how lucky they are to have a partner.

Hubblebubble · 25/10/2025 18:57

Once children are school aged, the childcare costs for a single parent of one aren't that eye-watering imo. Its frustrating not having enough annual leave to cover all the half terms and longer holidays, where two parent households can take it turns to take annual leave, but there's all manner of subsidised and cheap sports day camps and playschemes.

Lucelady · 25/10/2025 18:57

If you're old enough to remember the financial crash of 2008 you will know the creative industries went under. Advertising and marketing agencies were dispensed with. Two friends husbands were laid off from £100k+ jobs. Both in their early 40s, one never worked again. I was a management consultant on similar money. My clients luxury beauty who just cancelled all contractors.
You will not always be able to get income insurance. I had it but they refused to pay. I've never bothered since.
I'm still married but we lost our home and spent nearly half a million on rent over 14 years. We always had to pay up front due to our previous situation and we were treated appallingly including racial abuse and stalking. I wouldn't want to have a baby with the state of our economy. Mine are grown up thank God.
Jobs are being cancelled again in the same industries and grad roles have been replaced by AI. @HRchatter isnt a rare beast.
My advice to young people, stick to the professions.

shuggles · 25/10/2025 18:49

@Unrulyscrumptious I don't know where to start with your argument tbh it's so childish.

Well no, wanting other people to look after your children is childish.

Someone could argue that they supplement your council tax discount, not their problem you're single and choose to live alone and not with a housemate.

First of all, have you even stopped to think about what you are saying? The reason why single people don't live together in groups is because it's generally unworkable. You would have to be able to find people to invest in a mortgage in the same property, for 25 -35 years, and those people would have to pay their fraction of the mortgage on time without being difficult, and for them to pay for repairs, to cooperate to keep bills low, etc etc. That's why you don't see single people grouping together and taking out mortgages. It's different for people in a relationship because there's a willingness from both sides to make the arrangement work.

Second point... I don't live alone.

shuggles · 25/10/2025 18:44

@Ubertomusic They are paying 60% of all IT already, and how exactly is that different?

GDP is gross domestic product. In crude terms, it's how much "stuff" the country produces.

Only a fraction of GDP is paid into the tax pot. They are two different things.

I can't believe this is something that I have to explain.

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:43

Ubertomusic · 25/10/2025 18:42

How about self-employed?
Are they allowed to breed at all btw? They have virtually no social security.

Edited

They can get out the same policies which are tax deductible. I did when I was self employed. In fact it's even more crucial!

What do you mean no social security??? I kept my NI contributions up to date when I was self employed. It's a conscious decision whether to keep paying or not.

Ubertomusic · 25/10/2025 18:42

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:41

We had to get life insurance as part of our mortgage. I assumed everyone did.

In any case, my point about most employees offering death in service schemes (automatic enrollment) stands. Every job I've had (and DH has had) for 26 years has included this.

How about self-employed?
Are they allowed to breed at all btw? They have virtually no social security.

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:41

Algen · 25/10/2025 18:36

You don’t have to have life insurance as a condition of your mortgage in the UK.

While I agree that insurance can be really valuable, not everyone is able to get insurance they can afford - it really depends on health conditions. And then we’re getting back to the argument that disabled people shouldn’t have children, which is not an avenue I want to go down.

We had to get life insurance as part of our mortgage. I assumed everyone did.

In any case, my point about most employees offering death in service schemes (automatic enrollment) stands. Every job I've had (and DH has had) for 26 years has included this.

Ubertomusic · 25/10/2025 18:40

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:25

Exactly. I thought everyone who has a mortgage had to have life insurance? We certainly do, at the highest rate possible just for this eventuality. It will cover the mortgage plus 1 year of living. Plus many people in employment get a death benefit, both DH and I get 2 years salary if the other one dies whilst in employment.

Do people not know this? Or plan for it?

No, it's non-compulsory therefore the statutory compensation in case the insurer becomes insolvent may be limited.

Our friends are currently fighting with the insurer that blatantly refused to pay the valid claim (not life insurance). My health insurer routinely refuses to pay, I began to view insurance as a legalised scam.

Algen · 25/10/2025 18:36

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:25

Exactly. I thought everyone who has a mortgage had to have life insurance? We certainly do, at the highest rate possible just for this eventuality. It will cover the mortgage plus 1 year of living. Plus many people in employment get a death benefit, both DH and I get 2 years salary if the other one dies whilst in employment.

Do people not know this? Or plan for it?

You don’t have to have life insurance as a condition of your mortgage in the UK.

While I agree that insurance can be really valuable, not everyone is able to get insurance they can afford - it really depends on health conditions. And then we’re getting back to the argument that disabled people shouldn’t have children, which is not an avenue I want to go down.

twistyizzy · 25/10/2025 18:25

Lemonadepie · 25/10/2025 18:20

How about taking out insurance that insures you against exactly those risks?

Exactly. I thought everyone who has a mortgage had to have life insurance? We certainly do, at the highest rate possible just for this eventuality. It will cover the mortgage plus 1 year of living. Plus many people in employment get a death benefit, both DH and I get 2 years salary if the other one dies whilst in employment.

Do people not know this? Or plan for it?

Lemonadepie · 25/10/2025 18:20

HRchatter · 25/10/2025 16:23

We were earning in excess of 100 grand each in 2008 and then his industry turned to shit as did mine. He got a decent redundancy. I did not.
And then, with the stress of it all we split up
So we went from being able to afford private school
To not being able to afford to pay the milkman
We had savings for two years plus the redundancy, but unfortunately the children were nonreturnable
I really don’t know how much more planning we could’ve put into them
Shit happens

How about taking out insurance that insures you against exactly those risks?

YorkshireGoldDrinker · 25/10/2025 18:13

Since women became a good chunk of the working population, that's more money being raised in taxation, therefore more money is passing through more hands, then consumer confidence increases and prices rise. This in turn boosts GDP which then fuels confidence in the economy. Everything is great! Brilliant, even! But is it?

There are now two incomes (assuming both parents work), prices have risen, but that's fine because we now have dual income households, it's all perfectly well affordable. Confidence grows and because of the propensity for governments to borrow, inflation then also takes hold, so prices rise even further, more specifically, your money is no longer worth the value the BoE maintains the illusion of. They print the money, it's also their job to tell you a fiver is still worth a fiver. So then being able to service (let alone pay off) a mortgage on a single income before retirement is now impossible. What you end up with is a smaller house, probably even rented accommodation, a decent but expensive car (often leased) and fewer foreign holidays. Children barely factor in anymore once you add up the cost of the aforementioned. Remember, rampant inflation + taxation eats up dual income in no time.

I've always thought it a bit strange that a woman can work 5 days a week and 2 of those days will be enough to pay for 2 days of childcare (is it? I've heard it costs a fortune in some areas), then that's 3 days where she can't afford childcare. So big daddy government steps in to force more taxation to pay for wraparound care, means tested of course. Can't have people abusing taxpayer money, can we? Government does it all the time, but you're not allowed.

Anyway, my point is women were better off working in hospitals, restaurants and generally any job that doesn't involve a high power career being subservient to a big and powerful, wealthy man (or woman, there are plenty of female bosses out there) who can and most certainly will get rid of you for someone younger, fitter and with more energy and vitality than you. But none of that is affordable now, so women have no choice but to go to work. Unless their husband has a juicy and bullet proof income, they're more or less sentenced to a full time job hoping to be able to retire. Yes, 'sentenced', because after years of getting up at the arsecrack of dawn, barely eating breakfast, getting your kids to school, dealing with the congestion on the roads, and merely surviving, it does really feel like a punishment. It's not meant to be like this, but this is how things are now.

The most heartbreaking aspect of all of this in my humble opinion is abortion. People can't afford to raise children, their contraception fails and a pregnancy occurs. A new life is conceived! Praise God! But that little life is going to be ended before they're born because their parents can't afford to raise them. About a third of Gen Z don't exist because of elective abortion. 1/3 of a generation aborted.

We're killing our own families off before they're born because we can't afford to raise them. We can't go on like this. Oh but yes we can, it's called immigration. Right, so you're admitting population replacement. No, you ignorant racist. We need more people. We can't afford to have babies and don't like our bodies going through hell, so we import people who can.

Sigh. I need to go and have a pick-me-up....

GoldPoster · 25/10/2025 18:11

The problem is multi faceted. Are people who have little resources and have multiple children without considering the consequences more likely to neglect the children? You can’t assume that he children will be brought up be poor but loving parents or parent.

Wealthy parents can be neglectful too and unloving, but sufficient money may smooth over the worst effects of that.

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