Marriages don’t last anymore because..

Ah yes but his actions alone are not enough to end the marriage!

If only she was eternally forgiving, there would be no divorce.

"Forgive him and try again" etc.

Yes women file the paperwork most of the time. Seems to me a lot of the time the men have already voted with their feet by that time.

Looks that way

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worklife/article/20220511-why-women-file-for-divorce-more-than-men

The children are punished anyway by their parents example - a series of low-value relationships and not-so-happily blended families isn’t something to aspire to. Girls and boys grow up lacking accountability for their actions knowing someone else will pick up the tab regardless.

Everyone here is saying it’s women. Women x. Women y. Is this true? Is it actually women filing for divorce?

Then they are being ridiculous.

If one spouse chooses to have an affair that isn't the fault of the faithful partner, that is purely their own doing.

The title is an assumptive one though. Not all marriages end in divorce. You've hung your argument on a misleading premise. The reason I say that is because it's important to note the stats:

Approximately 42% of marriages in the UK end in divorce

Divorce rates fell to historic lows in 2022, at 6.7 divorces per 1,000 married men and 6.6 per 1,000 married women. That's 67 men out of 1000 and 66 women out of 1000.

In England and Wales, about 41% of marriages reach a divorce by the 25th wedding anniversary for couples married in the late 1990s. This is a substantial rise compared to earlier decades – only 23% of couples married in 1963 had divorced by their 25th anniversary.

And interestingly - younger couples are slightly less likely to split up early in marriage than those who married in the 1980s and 1990s. Social changes, such as marrying later and more couples cohabiting without marrying, may be influencing this shift.

Even more interestingly, there is a recognised rise in "Grey Divorce," which refers to the increasing divorce rate among those aged 50 and older. This has been driven by factors like longer lifespans, shifting societal attitudes, and increased financial independence for women. This trend has seen the divorce rate for those over 50 double since 1990, with 36% of divorces now occurring in this age group, and the rate for those over 65 is still growing. Key contributors include the "empty nest" syndrome and the realization that retirement is a long period to be spent in an unhappy marriage.

I always said that and people denied it. They all told me it takes both to ruin it.

Interesting discussion.

I mean, I'd want to know what your colleague does, himself, to work on his marriage? It would be fascinating to know if he has a ready answer and if it's convincing!

Your perspective of the 70s housewife is very jaundiced. I come from a family of males and non of them were like that. They took pride in their families and homes, were proud of their wives who worked, a teacher, and accountant, and defended their families to the hilt. But, then, my grandmother, born in the 19th century would have tolerated nothing less. She was a formidable Irish matron of 4 sons and a soldier husband and took no prisoners.

IMO you’re both correct and they’re linked. Yes perhaps people were more committed to staying together and working through things, because the alternative option was very different than it is today. Wanting to stay together and working through things is not necessarily a positive, it doesn’t mean they were happier!
it’s only 50 years since women were able to get a mortgage without written permission from a man! Imagine that now! Plus not having equal pay, not having childcare options. The decision to ‘stay and work things through’ becomes the less difficult option for all the reasons you stated OP. So you’re both right and they’re both a positive trend imo!

@BunnyLake "Once I saw the light I knew I’d never take shit from a man ever again, whether it was a tiny pellet or a mountain of the stuff. It was like an epiphany."

I agree.

This is why it took me 15 years to remarry after I divorced my first husband. The first sniff of disrespect or bad behaviour and I was gone.
People said I would never remarry because "I was too picky" WTAF !

And a lot of them are on MN. I could metaphorically shake them (and myself), but no longer. Once I saw the light I knew I’d never take shit from a man ever again, whether it was a tiny pellet or a mountain of the stuff. It was like an epiphany.

I read an article that has noticed a jump in women divorcing once they reached menopause. I took away that they probably stayed and put up and shut up for the family unit and children’s sake. Once the children flew the nest /went to uni they realised they were unhappy and had no reason to stay.

Unfortunately, there are still some women around who are happy to pander to these unevolved man-babies.

Some women really need to raise the bar !

So true. It takes two to make a relationship work but only needs one to ruin it.

My grandmother detested my grandfather. Had an affair for 40 years. They didn’t divorce because of stigma, plus she didn’t work after marriage, so had a cushy life.
My parents divorced …I was the only child in my year and one of only 2 in the school with divorced parents. You had to have grounds and evidence for a divorce back then. They had stayed together an extra 10 years because of the possible effect on my Dad’s career but eventually, that risk faded as divorce , especially for adultery, became more acceptable. My mother had been the one to cheat, but my Dad got a gf later, after he found out, and they used his adultery for the divorce to save her face.
When I met my husband, I moved in and ‘lived in sin’ . Frowned upon. We weren’t allowed to share a bed if visiting relatives, even when I was pregnant. We did get married because he needed a bank loan and wanted to look respectable. And divorced after 20 years. and for most of my life rates were climbing.
As women gained traction in the workplace. Less time for family life. More stress about income covering all the new inventions and costs…mobile phones, internet, holidays abroad becoming an expectation rather than a possible luxury, a car each instead of one family car, as well as the usual living costs. Everyone meeting a wider range of people and getting attracted to a new partner. I don’t know why the drop…maybe living together then splitting up not being recorded as a marriage would be.
Even now, rates are a lot lower than they used to be. ..Rising, maybe, but still nowhere near the peak . Interesting peak after the war. Absence clearly does not make the heart grow fonder.
I think people have higher expectations for themselves. They don’t tolerate because they don’t have to. I left my second mistake one year after we married. I started planning to leave 3 days after the wedding.

IMO there were two events that changed the relationship/marriage landscape for women,

!969 Divorce Reform Act (became law on 1st Jan 1971 created a surge in divorces. This legislation made getting a divorce much easier and took away the need to prove that someone was at fault. It also made it equally easy for a woman to obtain a divorce as a man.
Also women would fear divorce because of the financial risk of losing their husband. By the 70's women were much more likely to have independent finances and be able to manage on their own

!974 - "The Pill" was allowed to be prescribed to single women. This stopped "shotgun weddings" and pressure on people to get married "for the baby".

Interestingly, more women than men petition for divorce (heterosexual couples) and this has remained constant.
In 2021 63% were initiated by women and 37% were initiated by men.

I recall one of those human interest stories at the end of the local TV news. Nursing home hosted a morning tea for a couple living there - 60th wedding anniversary.
They sat side by side on the dais, not holding hands or looking at each other. The interviewer asked them separately what they attributed their long marriage to.
He said "I dunno, she just stayed with me I guess."
She said "Don't answer back and don't start any fights."

It was almost 30 years ago. I remember it because I was newly separated from my first husband and struggling with my emotions (devout Catholic etc.)

And what happens when one person constantly prioritises the other, but finds that isn't reciprocated? Do they just carry on being a doormat? Thank God, more women do now have the financial independence that enables them to leave useless and selfish men who only really want an uncomplaining skivvy/sex doll!

Was there stupid stuff like shame attached to getting divorced and failure? In the days when people didn't live together as much before getting shackled.

Nothing or nobody could ever get me to marry.

I think women just put up with more stuff in the 60/70/80s and some of the 90s, it was expected that you got married in your twenties and had kids, the man went out to work, the woman had a little job to fit around the kids and they stayed together.

Nowadays it’s realised that woman have more choices than ever before. They don’t have to have kids, they can have a career, they can go on holiday with their mates just like men can.

My parents marriage to me on the outset looks awful. They have traditional gender roles, my dad went to work and mum looked after my brother and I and did all the housework.

Dad was tight on the finances and my mum had an allowance and had to account every penny to him. No money went unaccounted for.
They insist they are very happy to this day but I do wonder if she stays with him out of fear as she doesn’t know how to exist without him.
No surprise why I thought ‘fuck that’ and have always worked even when it wasn’t easy when DD was a baby. I wanted independence and no way was I having some bloke ask me where £10 was.
I’m 40 and I’ve never been married.
I haven’t ruled it out, but I don’t really see what’s in it for a woman and it just gives more ‘control’ to the man. Obviously my own experience skews my opinion.
There is high expectations everywhere and standards are raised now and people don’t want to settle as we only get one life.
Whether this leads to long term happiness, or not, the jury is out.

But what if there wasn't a welfare state? Effectively it is the kids getting punished for incompetent, lazy men or women. I don't agree with that. Shit does happen too, and it is not always down to being a shit partner. People die or just grow apart.

op that’s very black and white thinking, the issue is nuanced so neither of you are being unreasonable

Also to remember that that is the way it was designed to work, for women not to be able to live independently from men. Not because they aren't capable, but because the system made sure they practically couldn't. We still live in a society that has the hangover of that, and the risk to go back too. Anyone who says women have the same opportunities as men today is completely delusional and dismissive of hundreds of years of history.