Marriages don’t last anymore because..

The problem with this though is that the man who does all this old school stuff may well also be the kind of man who doesn't do housework because it's 'women's work'. So many people still cling to this stereotyped thinking - only this morning there was a poster on here who told OP that she needed to do ALL the housework because she worked three days to his full time. Er.... no. Housework should always be proportionally split, though you can be flexible about how that is filled in. When my husband was made to leave the family home, I barely noticed his absence (except as relief) because I was already doing everything. This despite both of us working full time and bringing in the same money.

My PIL pretty much argue all the time. But they’ve been together for 50 years. I could never put up with them for that long. Sniping at each other all the time. I think the younger generation just doesn’t put up with crap any more.

This post is exactly why I expect men to pay on first (and subsequent) dates, and to carry shopping, pay the larger expenses. So many 'feminists' say that's so regressive. More fool them. They're the ones stuck in relationships with man children who want as you say the benefits of women's equality without the other side of taking equal responsibility for the household.

Sigh. I find that it's always the happily married people who trot out this line about people not being as committed anymore. Perhaps they have gone through challenges in their own marriages and have been able to work them out, so it's a kind of self-congratulatory pat on the back. And good for them if they have worked things out.

However, I find it very rude, because to an extent, they have had an element of random good luck as well as working at it. No amount of working on a marriage can change an abusive person into a non-abusive person, or a serial cheat into a faithful spouse, or an addict into a sober spouse, unless the person really wants to change and commits to it. And how often does that happen?

They also seem oblivious to the fact that many abusers only let their mask slip once you are good and trapped, as happened to me.

The attitude described by the OP is SO rude, because so many divorced people have tried to move heaven and earth to keep their marriages together, and flogged and flogged a dead horse. People with this attitude have NO idea why a given person's marriage broke up, so they should stop with the judgement. Yes, there are always going to be people who don't take marriage seriously, but most people value their marriages highly and don't let go of them lightly.

And also, people with the attitude that OP describes should be aware of the saying about glass houses...As those of us who had bad spouses know, you really have so little control. If one person decides to cheat or gamble or whatever, there's nothing you can do to stop that. They can find themselves on the other side of the divorce debate in a trice, through no fault of their own, so they should practise some humility.

It’s less that women didn’t work or have money ( most working class women worked). It’s that they were systematically paid less, fired for being pregnant, could be fired for being a mother or getting married, couldn’t own a bank account without a male co-sign, couldn’t own a property without a male co-sign and couldn’t get a mortgage. They were shamed for being a single mother or getting divorced and legally the children would usually be given to the father after divorce.

When you get past the Pearly Gates look me up and I'll help you out !!

In my next life I’m definitely not getting married. I’m going to run an animal sanctuary .

I dont think it is just about finances - women also have higher expectations too (and quite rightly). You only have to look at the information on dating at the moment to see how many women are reporting absolutely awful men out there who still seem to be living in the 1950s.

Financial freedom literally means a very different life!
❤️

@BaconCheeses this is a very good point I never see mentioned on threads here ever- that men expect a housewife yet from their wife who is also working; because (ok some women would like to work regardless) but often because the man’s salary isn’t worth two people’s income and they cannot afford to support their wives / families alone. IMO this notion is why there is such venom towards SAHM because I think that there are undertones in modern society that being - or ‘having’ for a man - a stay at home wife; is seen as a luxury and I wonder if marrying a man and having his kids when he can’t financially support you, is still seen by women as a bit of a failure. Maybe the state still even underlines this old fashioned view by having a a crap CMS and rubbish support for women with children on their own. Of course this is a v unpopular statement and is a massive generalization but all the threads around women as SAHP end in horrible dog fights.

I also think women had different expectations of marriage in the past.

in the past, if you married a man who had a steady job, didn’t cheat, wasn’t abusive, and didn’t gamble or drink away his earnings then you counted your blessings.

These days lots of women (including me) really don’t need a man’s income- sure it’s NICE but it’s not essential to my happiness and wellbeing. Not being abusive and not gambling / drinking to excess are entry level requirements to gain access to my life.

The things I expect are support, shared goals, equal responsibilities in the relationship, a connection, sex life, shared laughs, shared interests etc.

And actually, the things I want are not always forthcoming from men! Lots of men are typically very bad at these things because they weren’t socialised to provide care, understanding and support.

I think there’s a major gap in what the average women wants from a marriage and what the average men is able to provide. Hence the divorce rate.

A relative of mine, who was born in 1911, was urged by her eldest children (then teens) to leave her violent husband, but she never did. The teens tried to reassure her that everything would be all right if she left. Many decades later, one of them remarked that actually, her mother wouldn't have been all right if she'd left.

I've since met a few people who have grown up with violent fathers. Their mothers were housewives who didn't have the means (or the support from society) to leave. It would have been better for their children if their parents had split up, but that only seemed to happen if the husband chose to leave.

Even more interestingly, there is a recognised rise in "Grey Divorce," which refers to the increasing divorce rate among those aged 50 and older. This has been driven by factors like longer lifespans, shifting societal attitudes, and increased financial independence for women. This trend has seen the divorce rate for those over 50 double since 1990, with 36% of divorces now occurring in this age group, and the rate for those over 65 is still growing. Key contributors include the "empty nest" syndrome and the realization that retirement is a long period to be spent in an unhappy marriage.

I alway see menopause blamed for that on here - the caring homone and women waking up.

However from what I've seen a significant number of men hit around 50 and turn into grump irritable arses - I think it's health and possible frustrations with career plateau worries about redundancies and sometime mid life crisis when they run off to buy sport cars and get a younger woman in fear of getting old.

Also many health issue hit aorund 50+ and it's apparently shocking common for men to leave sick women and less so other way round.

I also wonder about elder care hitting that age range - I've notice there often an irriating with women family needing help and it's all on the wife but when it's husband family there are expectation wife pitch in even if relationships aren't great with IL and it being a them problem. It's different from having kids as that's chosen by parents and there's often fun - but with elderly paenst it can be a lot of work for little appreciation.

38 years here. Married at 23.

Yes, I agree. There are limits, of course, but I do often think a lot of the anxiety and depression is because people are now almost force-fed a diet of everyone else's perfect lives via social media etc., which for most is simply not attainable, and probably just a fake facade for the "slebs" and influencers too. Nothing wrong with compromising - of course as long as it's not all one way and doesn't slip into abuse etc.

So how many times can you forgive and carry on?

A colleague of mine was married to a serial adulterer. Each time he cheated he said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. Each time they agreed to a "fresh start".
He must have spun her a 'good yarn' because 3 infidelities and 4 kids later he finally left for the last OW.
Finally the wife divorced him and he married the OW.
He died of stomach cancer two years later and left a lot of money to the new wife.

Same as my upbringing. Father and both grandfathers very family orientated, always doing things with us, mother with a full time professional job, both grandmothers worked too. I just don't recognise the "little woman staying at home" kind of mother that almost everyone else seems to have, nor the useless abusive husband/father.

I must admit I was a bit taken aback by the standard of lads when my friends/sister and I started dating. My friends and sister seemed to put up with a lot of crap from their early boyfriends and sister married a waste of time but couldn't see it until it was too late. I soon ditched my first serious boyfriend when he started becoming unreliable and argumentative, literally after the first 2/3 months. My, now, DH was very much in the image of my father and grandfathers, i.e. reliable, respectful, etc which is why I stuck with him through some bad patches (externally forced, nothing to do with us) as it was worth it to get a "keeper".

My grandmother left my grandfather when my mum was small and went to her mothers. This would be late 40s early 50s. Her mother told her that her place was with her husband. She didn't have any choice but to go back to an unhappy marriage as she had no money, no job and no where else to go. How awful to be stuck in that situation.

I find their view ignorant and offensive and can only think those who say it have behaved badly in the relationship, so want to shift some of the blame. They’d get short shrift from me if they ever dared assert such an opinion to my face.

Of course it can only take one person, as any emotionally intelligent person would know (like you and me 🙂).

That's true.
If your husband is cheating then he's checked out of the marriage even if you instigate a divorce.

I think higher expectations for "happiness" is a large contributer to the epidemic of depression, anxiety and loneliness. So yes! These expectations are a bad thing

Likelyhood of getting married at all is now highly social economic dependent - higher social economically you are more likely marriage is.

So fewer marriage is why there a drop in divorse - couples never married in first place. 51% of births in UK are outside marriage or civil partnerships.

While co-habiting in Europre including UK isn't as unstable as USA but it's less stable than marriage.

I think kids make a massive difference - once they exist to often the additional tasks fall on mothers causing resentment- then once kids leave home things change and more splits. If you seeing it going up I wonder if it's your social group and I wonder if it's an age range thing or things like youngish kids or kids leaving home.

I agree. I don’t think people are willing to compromise any more, they want everything exactly the way they want it including their partner. A successful marriage/ LTR is all about compromise. 35 years and counting here.

I don't think who petitioned for divorce tells us who ended the marriage though.
If your dh has moved in with someone else and you file for divorce, that would go down as the woman initiating it.