Marriages don’t last anymore because..

@JHound. I see the ending of a marriage as a failure - surely everyone enters into a marriage with the intention of it being for the rest of their lives? If that doesn’t happen, for whatever reason, then I think it is a failure.

I dont think it is just about finances - women also have higher expectations too (and quite rightly). You only have to look at the information on dating at the moment to see how many women are reporting absolutely awful men out there who still seem to be living in the 1950s.

Literally dozens of them, laying the blame at the door of the welfare state for loneliness, divorce, even fertility rates! For obvious reasons I can't give you all the references to the authorities I have read, as I don't keep notes of it, but a perfunctory search on Google would point you in the right direction. This is just the one example and you can look up the list of literature at the end of the article

doi.org/10.1080/03585522.2025.2477540

That's interesting - could you furnish some links, preferably from peer reviewed neutral publications?

Please link this research. I’ve never come across any research papers from reputable sources indicating that this is the case so I would be very interested to read it.

A lot of studies have been done and it has been concluded, by most, that it is not financial independence (working women earning a crust) that is to blame for the disintegration of the family unit, but a social, i.e. welfare state. Reliance on the welfare state is the main contributing factor. Same goes for loneliness - welfare state-pension-social workers-meals on wheels - no need to be nice to your children and look after your grandchildren in exchange for a warm corner and one bowl of soup a day.

Sigh. I find that it's always the happily married people who trot out this line about people not being as committed anymore. Perhaps they have gone through challenges in their own marriages and have been able to work them out, so it's a kind of self-congratulatory pat on the back. And good for them if they have worked things out.

However, I find it very rude, because to an extent, they have had an element of random good luck as well as working at it. No amount of working on a marriage can change an abusive person into a non-abusive person, or a serial cheat into a faithful spouse, or an addict into a sober spouse, unless the person really wants to change and commits to it. And how often does that happen?

They also seem oblivious to the fact that many abusers only let their mask slip once you are good and trapped, as happened to me.

The attitude described by the OP is SO rude, because so many divorced people have tried to move heaven and earth to keep their marriages together, and flogged and flogged a dead horse. People with this attitude have NO idea why a given person's marriage broke up, so they should stop with the judgement. Yes, there are always going to be people who don't take marriage seriously, but most people value their marriages highly and don't let go of them lightly.

And also, people with the attitude that OP describes should be aware of the saying about glass houses...As those of us who had bad spouses know, you really have so little control. If one person decides to cheat or gamble or whatever, there's nothing you can do to stop that. They can find themselves on the other side of the divorce debate in a trice, through no fault of their own, so they should practise some humility.

A lot of studies have been done and it has been concluded, by most, that it is not financial independence (working women earning a crust) that is to blame for the disintegration of the family unit, but a social, i.e. welfare state. Reliance on the welfare state is the main contributing factor. Same goes for loneliness - welfare state-pension-social workers-meals on wheels - no need to be nice to your children and look after your grandchildren in exchange for a warm corner and one bowl of soup a day.

Sigh. I find that it's always the happily married people who trot out this line about people not being as committed anymore. Perhaps they have gone through challenges in their own marriages and have been able to work them out, so it's a kind of self-congratulatory pat on the back. And good for them if they have worked things out.

However, I find it very rude, because to an extent, they have had an element of random good luck as well as working at it. No amount of working on a marriage can change an abusive person into a non-abusive person, or a serial cheat into a faithful spouse, or an addict into a sober spouse, unless the person really wants to change and commits to it. And how often does that happen?

They also seem oblivious to the fact that many abusers only let their mask slip once you are good and trapped, as happened to me.

The attitude described by the OP is SO rude, because so many divorced people have tried to move heaven and earth to keep their marriages together, and flogged and flogged a dead horse. People with this attitude have NO idea why a given person's marriage broke up, so they should stop with the judgement. Yes, there are always going to be people who don't take marriage seriously, but most people value their marriages highly and don't let go of them lightly.

And also, people with the attitude that OP describes should be aware of the saying about glass houses...As those of us who had bad spouses know, you really have so little control. If one person decides to cheat or gamble or whatever, there's nothing you can do to stop that. They can find themselves on the other side of the divorce debate in a trice, through no fault of their own, so they should practise some humility.

I disagree. You can marry a man who is a much higher earner and still want to continue your full time job - because it's worthwhile and fulfilling, because it utilises skills you have worked hard for, because it gives you independence. So you're still both working full time - then what do you do if your husband won't do his bit at home? I'm not talking about the kind of scut work you can pay people to do for you, I'm talking about being a proper hands on parent and partner, not just someone who says 'I don't have to do that because I earn more'. Marrying a high earner doesn't protect you from marrying a rubbish man.

Children are quite sweet though. They might drive a complete wrecking-ball through many women's careers and finances but, if you like them, they do make up for a lot.

I've often wondered what happens to all the sweet, mischievous little 8 year old boys, who are so helpful, independent, funny, such good company and who can do anything and have amazing "super-powers", between that age and adulthood, to result in so many unpleasant men who don't pull their weight or worse. Something clearly goes very wrong along the way in a lot of cases.

Was there stupid stuff like shame attached to getting divorced and failure? In the days when people didn't live together as much before getting shackled.

Nothing or nobody could ever get me to marry.

I disagree. You can marry a man who is a much higher earner and still want to continue your full time job - because it's worthwhile and fulfilling, because it utilises skills you have worked hard for, because it gives you independence. So you're still both working full time - then what do you do if your husband won't do his bit at home? I'm not talking about the kind of scut work you can pay people to do for you, I'm talking about being a proper hands on parent and partner, not just someone who says 'I don't have to do that because I earn more'. Marrying a high earner doesn't protect you from marrying a rubbish man.

That's only a problem if you don't marry a man who's a much higher earner.

The problem with this though is that the man who does all this old school stuff may well also be the kind of man who doesn't do housework because it's 'women's work'. So many people still cling to this stereotyped thinking - only this morning there was a poster on here who told OP that she needed to do ALL the housework because she worked three days to his full time. Er.... no. Housework should always be proportionally split, though you can be flexible about how that is filled in. When my husband was made to leave the family home, I barely noticed his absence (except as relief) because I was already doing everything. This despite both of us working full time and bringing in the same money.