Marriages don’t last anymore because..

Your first sentence is wrong. The divorce rate is the proportion of marriages that end in divorce. It climbed through the 70s and 80s, reaching a peak in the early 90s, but has fallen since. It is now around half what it was at its peak and is close to what it was in the 1970s. Divorce is only more common if you compare to the 1960s or earlier. OP's question is therefore based on a false premise.

Of course, as we get older it tends to feel like there are more divorces because more of the married couples we have known have split up.

@NoArmaniNoPunani

Marriages might have lasted but they probably shouldn't have.

Exactly. People talk about long marriages as if they’re an automatic good. Very often they are just an elaborate legal/financial trap.

This is so true. I think many grandmothers told their daughters and granddaughters the truth but not their sons and grandsons so men see the past as rather idealized. The truth was that a long marriage did not always mean a long marriage. The more you put up with, the longer your marriage will be.

My grandmother had an abusive, alcoholic husband. She rejoiced when he died but she would never ever have divorced him. Even when he abused their children. The social stigma was the main thing because he wasn't bringing in money and she had to work.

My marriage failed because STBExH came out at age 40. I won't take any responsibility for it failing, I loved him deeply, thought we were best friends and that we would grow old together. Instead he went out and had sex with random men online, its ruined my life and I'll never trust another man again

I think men are often completely oblivious that those grandmothers they loved for enduring and keeping the family together are actually the ones whispering into their granddaughter’s ear

Interesting that this is mentioned. The only time I came close to marriage, it was his gran, who was a lovely kind 85yo, who took me quietly to one side, and warned me to look closely and think very very carefully. She was right.

In my experience so far, ive seen a lot of women settle because the grass just hasn't been greener so they have come back to what they know. For them, better to be with someone than alone. The only person I know who divorced was because her husband went to prison. I know a few people who are happy but they met young and again, the woman does everything!

Here’s the thing though: I don’t believe in toughing out a relationship with someone which isn’t enhancing my life. It makes no sense to me that that should have a higher priority than my own happiness as an individual.

For me there are two good reasons to stay in a marriage: for economic security (which doesn’t apply to me) and to provide stability for children.

If you take those two things out of the equation there’s no other value in marriage other than “we made vows”. What’s the point of continuing to do something which makes you unhappy because you made vows a long time ago. Changing your mind is often the most rational way to behave if your circumstances change: why do we reward self denying intransigence?

I am not married and would not marry again but I don’t understand why society praises and rewards such rigid and irrational behaviour.

My nan, who would be 116 if still alive absolutely hated my grandad, she used to call him an arsehole and tell us all how much she hated him. Marriages might have lasted but they probably shouldn't have.

I think women are more dissatisfied with their marriages as they have become inherently so unfair. Most women are now expected to bring in an income and manage a household. It's exhausting and too much. Life outside of marriage is far more appealing for many for this very reason.
If there has been a recent decline in divorce rates, it's because men have started to pull their weight a bit more.

I asked my mum a similar question about why she stayed married to my dad for 18 years in a loveless abusive marriage. She fell pregnant with me at 19 accidently three months into their relationship. She lived at home with her mum and siblings in a tiny council house. She was told she couldn't live at home with a baby so felt she had no choice. My parents married when I was 3 months old. She said that it was unusual to be a mother out of wedlock. She felt that she had no choice as she would have been homeless etc. She finally left my dad when I was nearly 19, my brother was 16. By that point we were hardly home being teenagers, she was working full time and had places to sofa surf until the divorce came through. She then put a deposit down on a shared ownership flat where she has lived ever since. I wish she had divorced my dad earlier, it would have been easier on us kids but I can absolutely see why she couldn't. It's only now as an adult with my own young kids I can see how she might have felt stuck.

I think nowadays there is less social constraint and it's easier to be propped up by the state.

Its absolute bollocks marriages don't last any more. The marriage rate has plummeted and it looks like the divorce rate has levelled off in recent years/decades and sort of peaked in the 90s/00s. I think it is more the case that only marrying types are getting married and we may well see the divorce rate fall, in coming years.

I've met a few men who lament that people don't stick to their marriages anymore meaning women have divorced them. Still too many men who think women should do the housework and childcare but happily forget their wives now work as well. It's not a lack of committment that kills many marriages, it's the wives resentment that has built up until she gets to boiling point

Both correct. Women have more means at their disposal to leave an unhappy marriage and that's a very good thing.

But also, I do think relationships are seen as more disposable these days generally. Look at the number of “it’s fine to have casual sex on the first date/sex is just a bit of fun to be had with anyone” posts on here. Not everyone feels like that, but certainly more people seem to than did in the past.

You are more correct.

Divorce rates have actually plateaued and fallen a bit since their peak - so it isn't a continual rise, more like a re-adjustment after the relaxing of previous norms/rules/necessities.

Marriages lasted previously because they had to. That is the simple fact. For most of human history, life without a husband/male figure was dangerous for women, and even more dangerous for their children. A man, even an unpleasant one, was better than the alternative.

Men don't have this incentive so much, but they have their own biological drives to pass on their genes, and for most men that was best done by marriage/committed relationships. Simply because in non-marital societies, you see a much more narrow band of dominant males doing all of the reproducing. for the vast bulk of lesser dominant males, being able to secure 'exclusivity' on one female's reproductive capacity, was a good deal. Create a societal norm that limits the dominant men from doing too much breading with married women, and you have a set up where most men have somewhat of a reasonable chance of carrying on their genes.

Now though?

Women don't need men for absolute protection, men don't care about lineage as much, a home doesn't require a full time worker to run it, kids don't require full time care, women don't require a man for a bank account/property ownership etc. etc.

The reality is that they just don't have an absolute need for each other like they used to.

So what is left, is what should be left - a want, love, desire to be together. And that is perfect when it lasts, but it often doesn't, and now when it doesn't (usually after trying to make it last as long as possible) what is left? If you don't want or need something, you aren't likely to keep it around for long.

There is too much choice!
My mother-in-law got married, aged 19, just after WW2. She was a fully-qualified dental nurse (should really have been a dentist, but her father did not believe in educating girls - in contrast to my parents' families).
When asked why she married so young, she said that there were not that many young men around, so you took what you could get!
In contrast, my parents did not marry until the late 1950s, both aged 26 with established careers. They were happily married for 60 years and convinced they would have met and married anyway (came from different ends of the UK) as both were considering emigrating to Canada at the time when they met.
I think today that there is far too much emphasis on the "perfect", at a superficial level, and not enough thought about life after the "perfect wedding". At the first hint of discord, instead of talking things through, due to the opportunities available these days, it is all too easy to jump ship - this applies to women and men equally!
In addition, UK society has become far more "casual" since the late 1990s. There is no shame any more in chopping and changing. Traditional societal frameworks have been loosened or broken down completely in certain demographics.
Changes to the divorce laws have facilitated divorce as an easy get-out (I know it is not that simple) rather than a last resort. People also feel far more "entitled" to personal happiness - as they perceive it - and also seem far more selfish, which has weakened the concept of family as a unit.
I am not advocating that anyone stays in a toxic or harmful relationship, far from it, but I do think people should consider more seriously what they really want from the alliance of marriage and whether they are prepared to put the effort in to facilitate this.
To quote the vicar, who married my parents, "you can stay married to anyone you would marry in the first place".

I think you are right OP - female opportunities are a big factor.

I do think there are other factors, however. I think social media means people often compare their own lives to others and are perhaps drawn to wanting “more adventures” or feel their own life isn’t what it could be and is boring etc. We all know relationships can get stale and with young children it’s easy to become a good partner but not a good partner and people know they are entitled to need this now too and simply less likely to “settle”.

I also think we are all living longer and many looking better in their 40s than 20s! 40s used to be too old to start again or even just to be on your own - but now it’s young and you think if I can afford to live alone and be happier/ or meet someone else - I will be. Life’s too short and all that.

Also less social stigma.

My first marriage ended because it was exactly as you stated - ( I’m 63 now) - many if not most men wanted a mum /housekeeper with sex on tap and thought it was normal to pop down the pub 3 nights a week to meet mates - certainly in the working class mining town I grew up in .

Yes, women are more likely now to have our own careers and money, thus more options. My Dad used to say that marriage can survive many things, but not infidelity, and I think he was right. I left my first H because he cheated a lot. I just could not tolerate that. Thankfully I had the means to do so.

I do think that a lot of people just aren't forgiving enough though. Me and DH have humdinger rows, but we know we are "family" and we love each other, and we always forgive one another if someone has been an absolute dick. But we both know that if one of us cheated, it would be over.

I agree with your colleague. I don’t think people take marriage seriously enough now. When I got married I took vows to stay with my husband for the rest of my life, through bad times as well as good, and I wouldn’t have married him if I’d not meant what I was promising. Of course there are exceptions, and I would never ever expect anyone to stay in a marriage where there was violence or infidelity, but I don’t think that’s the reason for the breakdown of most marriages. I think people just don’t take the commitment seriously now.

I agree. I was in a very similar situation, to the point where my ex husband was abusive.

I spent FAR too long 'working on it, and putting effort into the relationship' in the hope things would change, but it was all one sided. He didn't give a shit about me or the marriage. One person can't make it work on their own.

I felt so free and so much lighter when I walked away.

I stayed single for a very long time afterwards, but am now very happy with my partner, who I've been with now for way more years than I was with my exh. It's a very different relationship.

Let me guess the colleague was a man?
I think your colleague does have a point but I definitely agree with you, even in the 80s/early 90s there was a stigma around divorce and single mothers. Women didn’t have as much independence to just leave.

Also there is more of an attitude now of not sticking around in a marriage if you’re not happy - my friend is almost 50 and getting divorced because she just doesn’t want to be with her husband anymore- no cheating, abuse etc just isn’t working and she doesn’t want to spend the rest of her life with him, and why should she?

@Chiseltip when we ask "And what does he do for you OP", it's because we've spotted that one partner in the relationship is doing everything and the other is doing fuck all, not that you should only be in a relationship for what you can get out of it . Not sure how far you think a woman (usually) should go with this lovely unconditional support of her partner when she's getting nothing back.

IMHO it’s not only that (more) women now have more financial independence. It’s societal expectations too:

• Shame: Until very recently (certainly up until 1970s) it was shameful to be a lone mother - it brought shame on the wider family, prospective employers or landlords would consider lone mothers (unless widows) as not respectable; prospective future partners would be put off. Of course, there were exceptions, but that was the general societal view. It still permeates today in some ways and in some social circles.

• Failure: because relationships were based on the idea of Christian marriage for life, and the church looked very dimly on divorce (or didn’t allow it), divorces (and thereby divorcees) were seen as a ‘failure’. We stay say it today: “a failed marriage”. This perspective is loaded into your question, @PictureImperfect: people don’t try hard enough - it’s their fault it ‘fails’.

I think now we’re starting to appreciate that a relationship ending in a healthy, respectful way isn’t a failure. Indeed, it can be preferable if one or both are unhappy or feel unfulfilled. People change throughout their lives and sometimes they don’t change in the same way: they value or want different things out of the next phase.

Most people make different friends who they’re closer during different phases of their life: teenage years, young single adult, couple, parent of young kids, parent of older kids, middle age etc. People rarely stick with solely the same friendship group for life. Yet, we expect to stay with a partner.

So, having more than one partnership (or indeed choosing to live alone) isn’t necessarily a failure. It can actually be much better, especially if you remain friends with ex-partners (preferable if you have children together) so you don’t lose that aspect of the relationship.