Is it right women do more?

Someone may have mentioned it already, but I honestly recommend buying the book ‘how not to hate your husband after kids’. My DH bought me it as a joke and we both ended up reading it - loads of really helpful statistics and advice to both partners that speak to the modern challenges of how workloads are shared in relationships with young children. And men admitting they just didn’t want to clean.

My ex tried the “can’t see” excuse until I pointed out that he’d stepped over stuff that I’d left on the stairs to take up later so must have seen it.

He was a project manager earning 6 figures so has to be detail orientated.

If he’s not good at cleaning then it means that he needs more practice at it. 😈 He shouldn’t be cleaning for you, he should be cleaning because that’s what adults do.

If he 'can't see it' make an exhaustive list for each room of what needs to be done so that he is forced to 'see it'. I agree with others. He doesn't sound nice and is doing a poor job so that you don't keep asking him.

Women don’t have to do more. I wish early in relationships some women would slow down, raise their expectations and put down some boundaries instead of being so keen to play house and prove themselves to be a perfect future wife.

Do you understand the difference between socialisation and actual genetics? And you still think this is somehow encoded in DNA. Cars were only invented about 150 years ago!

Women are generally taught from birth (from parents but also society) that it’s their job to keep the house clean and that they will be judged harshly otherwise. Men are generally not taught this. We are also taught (not even overtly a lot of the time, but just in the fabric of things) that this is because women are innately ‘better’ at cleaning (and buying throw cushions 🤣).

All this helps keep the status quo, which is that housework etc is done by women because they ‘care more’ or are better at it. Then women started doing more paid work, but this idea still remained.

I guess buying into it has helped you be less pissed off by your male partner so that’s a plus for you in some way, but it doesn’t help generally build a fairer world for women /everyone.

Of course it’s not right that women do more. The load should be shared 50-50.

BUT if he’s working and you’re at home, you should do the majority of the housework.

AND are your standards ridiculously high? Are you trying to maintain a show home with non stop cleaning and expect his standards to be the same?

100%. DH is much better at cleaning and I’m the one with the racing licence!!!!!

My DH is autistic and grew up in a home where neither parent cared much about cleaning, tidying or having a nice environment to live in. I am completely the opposite with a mum who is a neat freak and cleaning nut.

We have a 50/50 split but have achieved it in a different way. DH's autism means he will do a task really well but may not spot another task alongside it. So he will tidy up after dinner, load the dishwasher and clean the surfaces but may not spot that the cloths and towels need changing in the kitchen. We originally had checklists but they're now mental checklists, just to make sure the job gets done. It probably sounds like I was treating him like a child but he realised he needed structure and just didn't have it.

We also play to our strengths. I love meal planning, he hates it. I loathe changing bedding and sorting laundry into loads, he likes doing it. So that's a split in our house. I very rarely put a load of washing or dishwashing on as he does it, he never sorts out tumble drying because I'm the one with the silk / cashmere / wool clothing and i'm precious about it.

I like finding holidays, he's super good at sorting out pensions and investments, insurances, switching energy tariffs and that sort of thing. Another split for us.

Cooking is done by whoever is free / finishes work first. Shopping deliveries are the same. Ours is coming tonight and I will be at a yoga class so DH will put it all away. He'll also start dinner, following the prompt on the menu board on the kitchen wall.

I quite like ironing (sad I know 😂) so I do that on Sunday but DH will literally do everything else on Sunday. He thinks I am a saint for liking ironing so I make the most of it 🤣.

We have a 'Sunday summit' on Sunday evening to make sure we plan the week ahead and spot any clashes over the next 6 weeks as we both travel for work. When our kids were younger we'd agree on pickups and drop offs during this slot. Often we'll work out who is cooking each day as we check who has late work meetings or is out at events.

I don't tolerate weaponised incompetence and there were some times when I had to point out to DH that his parents' examples wasn't great and theses were skills he needed to learn. Because he isn't a twat he listened and learned.

This works because we are committed to 50/50 and respect each other's jobs. We're fortunate to have a very good income so cleaning once a week and lawn mowing fortnightly get outsourced.

If he's willing there will be a way to get a 50/50 split but if he isn't this will just fester in your relationship.

I think both need to do their share of both work full time. Doesn’t have to be the same things though. My husband actually does far more cleaning and washing than me and general house maintenance. I do pretty much all the cooking, food shop and sorting stuff. We divvy it up to the things we prefer.

I agree op. Are there things he can see which he could do more of?

eg my dh is truly excellent at laundry and he runs the whole show.

He also notices when the grass is long enough to be cut (I don’t!) or my car needs vacuuming.

Perhaps he could take on big periodic tasks that just need doing like:

moving big furniture/sofas and vacuuming once a month

running a cleaning cycle through the dishwasher and the washing machine once a month

cleaning the oven once a month

defrosting the freezer once every 6 months

cleaning the windows once a quarter

cleaning carpets once a year

and so on.

Oh, do keep your sexism to yourself.

Yes. There is.

And it's the same reason most single men who live on their own don't give two flying fucks about matching curtains or throw pillows. They will happily eat every meal from the same bowl and are oblivious as to whether the toilet seat is left up or down.

Men don't care about housework. They never have. They never will. For them, things are about efficiency. So the cup left by the sink is fine because they will wash it when they need it. Laundry piled on the floor next to the bin is fine, because they know where it is when they need to wash it.

Men just don't care about stuff like this. Same as we don't care about keeping cars clean.

While my DH doesn’t do stuff quite to my standard he’s really tries. He’s does most of our washing, all the ironing. He takes and sorts the bins out. We equally share dishwasher etc, I will end up doing more life admin, cleaning but if I ask him to help he does it without complaining and tries.

Why have you saddled yourself with such a useless human being?

Agree. Not genetic. Being able to keep a house clean and tidy is a learned skill. My ex absolutely could do it. When he had to (or expose his massive hypocrisy) he could. He just simply didn’t want to put the effort in. He saw it as beneath him.

I’ve read all your updates OP and the phrase “weaponised incompetence” comes to mind.

You’re tying yourself in knots trying to work him out - in this way, as well as the housework, you’re putting in more effort than him.

Of course he knows how to put things in the right recycling box and clean a kitchen. As people point out, he’s not incompetent at work. He just doesn’t care enough to make the effort.

In my experience, men like this thrive off keeping you trying to “solve” it. It keeps you occupied. But it’s not solvable. It’s his choice to do this. People don’t change.

My DP is not a high earner (although I think he has a lot of skills). He is not an organised, naturally tidy person. I am very tidy and organised (to a fault, perhaps). But even my DP, who is chaotic, outdoorsy, was born on a farm, and spent his formative years literally among pigs and cows, has learned how to clean up and not leave a mess.

Because he cares about me and respects me.

Everyone has different preferences and standards, but effort is the most important thing. Men who claim they “can’t see it” and don’t try, but somehow hold down big boy jobs, are full of shit.

This is mad. Do you truly think there’s something genetic about feeling the need to keep a car clean?

Bravo!! Yes. Men seem to be able to manage to hold down jobs that require the same (or more) skills that cleaning requires. Yet ‘can’t’ keep a house clean and tidy (often).

my view is that it’s internalised misogyny. I’ve not read the full thread so this has probably been said. But cleaning and caring have been seen as ‘women’s work’ and women have been viewed as inferior over decades. So men have internalised the belief that the work of cleaning and caring is also inferior and doesn’t require effort or conscious thought.

cleaning and caring actually are complex tasks that women are socialised to learn to do well.

read Fair Play by Eve Rodesky and get him to as well.

my ex insisted for years he didn’t see the mess and it was my standards not his. Yet when we agreed on minimum standards he was similar to me. He wanted a clean tidy house to the same standard as me. He believed his penis doesn’t mean he shouldn’t do it. He just simply didn’t want to apply himself to it. He had to for a while and within two weeks he was sat on the floor in the doorway sighing because he was ‘exhausted’. Welcome to my world for ten effing years.

We have a rule that we both get the same amount of ‘free’ time (not doing paid work, not doing childcare, not doing necessary housework, etc) to do what we want with - exercise, hobbies, sit around not doing much. There are certain jobs one of us enjoys more but we make it balanced e.g. I might do tidying and he does the cooking. You could frame it like that - it would be hard for a kind and reasonable person to say that isn’t fair.

it dies become more difficult if you have different standards - luckily we’re both pretty slovenly so it works ok. Could you work on allowing there to be a bit more of a mess if that doesn’t make you too miserable? And he needs to work on ‘seeing’ the mess that is there and doing something about it - sounds like he’s not currently putting the effort in to do that, even though you’ve said it’s important to you, which isn’t great.

You say he’s been like this since you met. He showed you who he was from the beginning. Why did you think that would change?

My husband isn't great at cleaning or cooking .... well he is very capable at cleaning but doesnt think to do it. In fairness he works 70 hr weeks and has always been the breadwinner. I used to work ft then 0.8 once we had children.

I now don't work as I am a carer and SAHM but we have kept the cleaners, I do all food shop, prep, cooking, clean up. Bins. Pets. Gardening. Weekly bed sheet changes. Cleaning daily. Laundry; washing, folding, putting away. He does the ironing and car cleaning and some DIY repairs when needed. I also plan and book holidays and all child and medical admin (considerable due to a disability).

Yes most cleaners are women but I have to say the very best cleaner I ever had was a man!! Absolutely fantastic!

I just think you need to sit down with him and say you are getting resentful. Organise a weekly cleaner which takes a lot of the things like bathroom clean and whole house vacuuming off your list which makes the day to day cleaning you do feel less of a burden.

Get him to choose two or three specific jobs that he can commit to; emptying bins daily and putting bins out on bin day? Mowing? Clean the windows each week? Putting away folded laundry or putting a wash on each morning? Empty the dishwasher each morning?

Equality in terms of women going out to work is fantastic but it is actually a trap if we don't account for the womens' work that we used to do before women tended to go out to work. Womens burden has increased !! So we need to divide that up and if possible delegate to cleaners/gardeners if funds allow.

Sometimes we even have a man who comes to clean the car!!