Kids in care

@Marie299 I'm sorry you're getting such harsh replies from some posters. You've obviously come a long way since when you were pregnant and in care and should be proud of that.

When was the SGO put in place for your DD and why? That's quite a drastic move, because it means she's been placed under her grandparents' care until she's 18. I wonder if that's had an impact on why she runs hot and cold with you – she knows she won't ever get to live with you while the order is in place. And why is her brother not under an SGO too? That must be confusing for them both.

As others have said, trying to force more contact than your DD is comfortable with will most likely backfire. Make more effort to stay in touch in other ways – letters, texts, sending small but significant gifts. Let her know you are always there for her.

Good post and advice. It is a fact that children from working class, poor and ethnic minority families are far more likely to be taken into care. Hardly any middle class, well spoken parents have children taken from them even when they are child molesters and child batterers. Reading about how fair and compassionate social workers are is very hard on those of us who have been on the receiving end of their actions and been left deeply traumatised.

But this doesn’t matter to your daughter

you are clearly angry about what has happened and the missed opportunity to be there for your daughter and have her with you but that isn’t relevant to her.

As I said before your truth and story about this simply isn’t hers - your anger and regret about not being able to be her parent her

and if you don’t see it like that you won’t get her back

When was she removed? You said GM wanted her from day one, did she keep reporting you to social? I am very close to someone in your situation. The GM had reported her hundreds of times, pages and pages. Do you have a solicitor? If you have sorted yourself out, have you done parenting courses and everything else offered by the social?

I would be speaking to a solicitor and going back to family court to arrange regular contact. Start fighting for your child. When someone gets an SGO it states that the care is until the child is 18, it doesn't have to be

You can apply to the courts 2 years after removal, to take the child back.

Wish you luck x

Your daughter will have experienced trauma by being removed from her mum even if it was the right thing to do.. she may be saying she doesn’t want to see you because she will subconsciously worry that you won’t be there for her again and so perhaps in her mind it’s easier if she doesn’t see you. It’s possibly her way of protecting herself. Please see it from her perspective not yours. You’ve had a tough childhood but the reality is so has she by being removed from her mum - that’s why SS only do it in extreme cases because it’s traumatic for children. I’d focus on being honest why she had to go and live with her grandparents (that you were unable to care for them at that time - no excuses blaming your childhood) and reassure her that you’re not going to leave her life again.. and be consistent. Please do not have more children as that will damage your existing kids even more and the next ones may also be removed. I have an acquaintance who has 3 grandkids living with her because the daughter keeps getting pregnant and her mum takes them to avoid them going into care. So it’s good your exes parents have your daughter. You’ve had a shitty start to life yourself, but please focus on being the best mum to her now by being honest with her or working with her social worker for how to help your daughter now. Good luck

I am a foster carer and have met many birth parents over the years. Every one of them feels wronged that their dc are not with them, no matter how horrendous they have behaved, its always someone else's fault. As pp said, children aren't removed unless there is a risk, ir at least a perceived risk. However you sound very measured op and if you are as sober and settled as you say you are there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to see your child. However, while your dd seems to like talking to you on the phone, it seems that she is reluctant to see you. Perhaps she is happy as she is, perhaps she likes engaging with you but doesn't want an actual visit, perhaps she doesn't feel safe around you. All you can do is be loving and consistent, keep doing what you are doing and hope that in time she will want to see you. Children have the right to see their parents, but they also have the right to not see them, especially in your dds circumstances.

I don't have any advice for you, just lots of sympathy. You're getting a hard time from some people, and I don't think it's fair.

I hope that with time, patience and gentle, loving, respectful consistency from you, you are able to build a better relationship with your daughter. You need support networks and people to be able to express your sadness at though, so I understand why you posted here.

Good luck to you.

What is your relationship like with their grandparents? Do you just collect your son and go?

Is there any possibility for staying for a cup of tea. Or meeting up outside the house to do something together?

They are her safe people right now and she might need their presence to restart your relationship.

Meeting up somewhere like a play park (ok not in this weather) where she can come and go and interact with you as much or as little as she chooses can also reduce the pressure. Especially if one of her grandparents are there so she knows she can escape if it gets too much for her.

OP, you might’ve missed my question upthread but can I ask- how old was your daughter’s dad when you were pregnant at 16 and in care? You were obviously quite vulnerable. Is your son older or younger than your daughter? Do either of the dads have a relationship with the children?

I saw that too late. And that it's her ex's parents.

I used to work at a place which was used for supervised contacts.
We saw children go to eventually going back to live with them, through to ones who ended up having no contact to protect the child.

But there was a very clear pattern.
Those who said they'd done wrong, and were clear how they were wrong and wanted to improve, were the ones who got the children back again.
Those that put in the effort on their child's terms.

I saw many who like the OP said that it was a vendetta, just a tiny incident, wasn't fair.
But you could tell by the children's reaction that there was far more to it. They weren't comfortable before or during the contact, and the relief at the end was clear. I've seen children crying that they want to go home, don't want to see the parent, refusing to get out of the car before.
Parent arrives, they stop crying, agree with the parent they want to stay with them... Then when the parent has gone they're saying "please I don't want to see them next week".

Op, if you want them back the first thing you need to do is acknowledge that you did parent badly. That might be because you didn't know how, but it doesn't matter.
You work with SS rather than seeing them the enemy. You turn up on time, remember presents (don't go OTT) on birthdays, if they don't want to see you then. "That's fine. Hope to see you another time. Love you" unemotionally will set a calm tone where the child can make a decision on their terms.
Then you ask about face to face meetings.

But if you continue feeling that it isn't fair and you didn't really do anything wrong, I'll be pretty certain that nothing will change
From experience, I'd also be pretty certain that's the right decision for your children too.

She’s already stated her Mum died when she was 8

I've tangentially seen a young mother who worked really hard to look after her latest child, with a great deal of support from her network, given no chance by Social Services. Not a shred of a chance. Her child was removed despite considerable evidence that she had changed her parenting. She had a different social worker and she was allowed to keep the next and it's more or less worked ... with a lot of support.

if people think Social Workers are all for their clients' bests interests though they are supremely naive. It's a profession that attracts the best and worst of people, and is chronically severely underfunded and attacked, with all the problems that brings.

I've personally worked with two social workers, one of whom isolated vulnerable team members and clients and dragged them down, and one of whom used prostitutes, manipulated everyone around them and forced sex on people.

Also known two outstanding social workers who deserved far better treatment than they received and who were nothing but a positive thing for their clients.

So when you say that your social worker gave you no chance, sadly it seems feasible to me that you've been unlucky. All these posters who assume that it was all your fault seem either sadly naive or malicious, and brutally so when talking to a mother who has clearly made mistakes, some serious, but loves her children.

I hope that events unfold in a way that your daughter can feel safe enough from all directions to allow you back into her life.

I'm hoping the grandparents she is with are not your parents in that case.

In the majority of cases contact with parents is encouraged. If you feel there is resistance from grandparents I would advise that you seek legal advice. It is beneficial for your daughter to see you as long as there are no continuing risk factors but that’s very individual so I’m giving general advice as don’t know your full circumstances .

Lots of people have a difficult childhood and manage to create loving and stable homes for their children. I would start by reflecting on why your DC doesn't want to see you, rather than yourself, and that accountability may be the basis for a relationship with her in future

I work closely with social services and while in general I agree that children aren't "taken for nothing" it is very clear that young people in care are unfairly scrutinised to the point it can be very difficult to "pass" parenting assessments.

I have seen children removed for ridiculous reasons and yes, even based on no actual harm but perceived future risk. I've sat through court in tears supporting young parents who haven't been given a chance and have jumped through hoops to be the best parents they can.

OP I hope things improve and while I agree that your daughter's needs come first, make every effort to speak to her as much as she's willing to keep your relationship going x

My friend is a children's social worker and she often goes to court to present evidence. She told me it is so hard to get children taken from bad parents, as a portfolio of evidence is needed all of the time. Sometimes the evidence isn't enough, it makes her upset. They really need the child to actually say what's been happening, which most won't. So for them to have removed her from you with only a visit once every 6 weeks, you have put her in danger and made her unsafe. No wonder she doesn't want to see you. I'd leave her alone and stop making babies you can't take care of. Thank God she is safe with her grandparents now.

@Marie299 i think you need to separate out why your children were taken into care and contact with your daughter. One is your story and definitely not hers and for her has no bearing on right now.
The past cannot be changed for either of you only the future and for that you need to centre it around your daughter.

and for that you need to give her time and space - make it clear you are there for her but any contact will always be led by her and the pace at what she wants it to be.

if there is any alienation going on then she may well see that in time.

You need to recognise and accept 2 things

1. what is best for you and what is best for her are not necessarily the same
2. what is best for her needs to be centred and what is best for her is for her to lead all of this

give it time and don’t push but also don’t withdraw. Find a place where she knows you are there when she is ready

This is incorrect. It’s not common but it can and does happen depending on risk factors vs protective factors. It comes under ‘risk of future harm’ which we don’t need to quantify there just has to be a significant concern. For example a parent who was abused and in the care system themselves could perhaps be having a MH crisis - if they have a good support network, engage with therapy and the child has consistent good levels of care etc then it can be fine but if there is poor engagement and things like poor school attendance signs of neglect no support network Plus concerns from other professionals things can be looked at more negatively. Children can be removed for this as it’s often better to be proactive not reactive. As I said it’s rare but ‘risk of future harm / risk of future emotional harm’ is a safeguarding issue.

You've obviously had a tough time OP and I’m sure we all sympathise with that. BUT, you insisting that social services set you up to fail and lose your children is bullshit. People have tried to advise you of things but to be completely honest, your attitude is horrendous. You lost your children because you couldn’t look after them, if you could, they would still be with you. Social services don’t want to split children from their parents. Stop with the bullshit. It’s not helping you.

You haven't explained a thing OP that's why people are giving you grief. You are being deliberately vague about why social services were involved and making out it was all a witch-hunt against you. It's neither here nore there if you want to try and spin this yarn with strangers on the internet but if they don't buy it then it's highly unlikely that your kids will either. You need to do some serious self-reflection if you really want a relationship with your children and stop blaming the people who put them first and protected them when you weren't able to

Your daughter is of an age where she probably wants to hear you take responsibility for the circumstances of her childhood. I've been involved in many cases where in my view children should have been removed and haven't, the threshold is very high. Being honest and taking responsibility, rather than blaming social care is a step towards a transparent relationship with your child.
If doesn't sound like grandparents are preventing contact if your son lives with them too and you see him every two weeks. You really need to reflect on your own part in all of this regardless of your own circumstances, and how this has affected your daughter. She may be testing you, she doesn't trust your relationship with her, she's pushing you away and rather than doing anything about that you just haven't seen her for two years. You're doubling down on the abandonment she will already feel. You say you've changed and most people will between 20 and 27 but you don't seem to recognise the trauma your daughter has experienced and is still experiencing.