Kids in care

Hi OP, you have clearly had a troubling time and are making attempts to improve your situation.
I hope you are getting support and advocacy.
I know from personal experience that social services will only separate children from their parents as a last resort.
I don't doubt that you love your daughter and it is important to continue with maintaining contact and building bridges.
Parenting is very hard, even for those in supportive relationships and no one gets everything right.
Please take care of yourself.
Step by step

They kind of do, I became pregnant at 15 and they did had a very bad experience with one professional blatantly lying about me as well.
They’re also a lot harder on parents who were in care themselves I know quite a few people with stories similar to the ops.
I wasn’t even in care but when they wrote up their report when I was 15/16 they felt the need to add that my father drank too much when I was a young child (I didn’t even live with him so there was absolutely no need for that)

It’s a shame mumsnet doesn’t let you delete posts because this thread was a bit harsh the first few pages and could even be outing. Op I would try and move it to 30 days only so it disappears in a month

This with bells on. I do really feel for you @Marie299 but she's nine, I'm not surprised she's going back and forth between wanting to see you and not, she's only little and complex emotional issues are hard enough for adults! I really hope you can do the work to be there for her and can see her more when she's ready.

Really sorry to hear this OP. Irrelevant of why your dd is in care, sounds like it’s all difficult and sad for everyone involved.
Perhaps it’s the grandparents influencing your dd?
In terms of the social work side, if you have instagram there is an account called ‘lalalaletmeexplain’ who is an ex social worker who gives relationship advice etc. I think you can DM her via her ‘asklalalaletmeexplain
page and she may give you some advice? Not guaranteed of course xx

I have experience of this from a professional standpoint. Children being removed from birth family is not done without good reason and is often as a last resort. One of the reasons being that the cost of a child in care is very, very expensive.

@IamtheDevilsAvocado unfortunately for young people in care this isn't true at all. I've read the case notes of a young woman who gave her baby a room temperature milk while on a 1 hour supervised outdoor trip. This was reported as unable to meet basic needs and along with perceived risk due to childhood trauma was enough for her to fail an otherwise positive assessment.

One of my own young people failed as her baby cried while she was showering and it took her 110 seconds to get out and back to her baby who was safely in his cot. Emotional neglect? I don't think so.

And I'm not sure your example has any relevance to this?

Seeing you will remind her that she’s different, that her life is different. It opens up her own trauma around not being able to live with her Mum. You have to understand that from her point of view, there is an emotional and psychological level at which you must feel dangerous to her- it opens her up to big feelings and a harsh world. All you can do for her is respect that.

Call and write to her as often as you’re allowed to. Tell her about you day to day life, talk about pets or hair or food. Send little gifts- hair scrunchies, a book, a packet of sweets, a craft kit. Don’t make it expensive but do it consistently- do not miss a month.

Be a force for good in her little life.

So they took both of ur kids for no reason?🤔

This is awful for your children. My friend is a SW and she has always said children are always removed as a last resort. You now mention a partner. Do you have children with them too? How long have you been with him? Is that a red flag to SW's?

All your posts seem to be playing you as the victim and its hard for anyone to advise you when you play down what actually happened and why it got to this point.

If it helps you OP:

I was like your daughter. It’s hard to explain as I was young at the time but basically my dad would call and the times I was able to join I’d be able to chat happily and say I love you. But as soon as the call was over I didn’t feel right. My heart felt so heavy.

And when I was told my dad was on the phone I’d feel anxious. So sometimes I wouldn’t take the call.

I was always torn between feeling like I ‘was supposed’ to want to see him and want to talk to him (and so talking to him and asking to see him) vs a feeling of wanting to hide from him so I didn’t hurt.

I don’t know if that helps, but I hope it does.

Do you have SW involved or staff from family support centre to mediate.
If court order states contact frequency,then this should be facilitated, by court order.

This is incorrect. They literally do if the parent is care-experienced. They would have been breathing down her neck from the get-go.

Doesn’t matter how young you were, they do not breathe down your neck or criticise unless there’s a reason. You need to accept what happened then because until you do you can’t rebuild. You say you are in a good place now, brilliant, but you need to put your daughters needs central to this and accept she is settled at her grandparents, the only home she knows, and develop a new relationship with her, perhaps more of an aunt/big sister type relationship. I’m guessing contact is supervised so ask your social worker to help you reset this. Don’t push for custody because that isn’t in her best interest by this point, concentrate on being a person she can have fun with

There will always be reasons, even if parents dispute it. But the bar is not ‘very high’. I feel this is a trope people hear and keep repeating. The bar for adoption is high, yes, but not for an SGO to family.

Edited to add: Some teams are willing to seek removal for spurious reasons, others do nothing and allow children to remain in harmful situations. There is a lot of variation between LAs.

Regardless, it’s not unreasonable for OP to want to have contact with her child and that likely would have been included in the court order.

If DD says she doesn’t want to go, I’d consider going back to square one and doing indirect contact or calls. And think about a contact centre if you can afford it.

And also you need to do some research into trauma. Your child will be traumatised. Leaving you alone is a Trauma. Scientifically we have proven that the brain grows and develops the most in the first two years of life. Also the traumas hardest to overcome are those that happen to children before the age they can talk about it. So the first two years are actually the most important years in a child's understanding and expectation of the world around them and of the adults in their world. Trauma shapes and changes the brain. It literally causes physical changes to the brain and body. So yes your child will carry Trauma for her whole life. We all do. But hers will be significant.

I definitely wouldn’t go to court and push for more contact, that would just push her away even more.

What things have you tried so far?
You can create a bond without doing it face to face and I would start with creating a bond and building the relationship back up.

As she is getting older she is going to be questioning things and have mixed emotions about seeing you.

I know with my own DD, her dad got back in touch and wanted to see her which I facilitated but she hated it because instead of having fun with me or her friends/family, she had to spend her time with a practical stranger (it didn’t last long and then he got bored anyway).

It’s a bit like having to see an elderly relative that you have nothing in common with. At that age, you’d rather be doing anything but seeing that person.

What are her hobbies/interests?

Why do the grandparents have custody and not her dad?

Clearly this is a complex situation and I think this is one where people who know you in real life will be best placed to support. However, having been in your daughter's position I thought my experience may be helpful to you.

You describe that your daughter is inconsistent in whether she wants to see you or not. This was my experience as well. The reason behind it was that I wanted to want to see her but deep down I knew that she was not able to be a positive presence in my life. That internal tug of war is very powerful, especially when you are surrounded by your peers who have good relationships with their mothers. As an adult I have the tools to cope with this now and I have accepted that my mother is not able to be a positive presence in my life but a 9 year old does not have those tools. Her brain isn't even halfway through its development, try to put yourself in her shoes.

My advice to you is to continue to be there in whatever form your daughter is comfortable with. Writing to her may be helpful, though I would suggest asking someone who knows you in real life to help you with this. I also think that you should seek professional help to manage your feelings around this, perhaps via your GP?

Most of the time... The vast majority of times, it IS the right decision. The threshold for care proceedings and taking children into care is high. People have to consistently not do what they're asked.

I've worked with parents who were 'trying their best', they genuinely were... But it was still not good enough.

One family I recall, they were doing well with their 2 daughters about 6&8 certainly 'good enough' ... But they couldn't /wouldn't stop a paedophile uncle coming to the house.

They were completely vague about ensuring at any family events this man was nowhere near their kids.

@Marie299 I'm a GP. We sometimes beg social services to act and take children away from their parents, and they don't, because of their resourcing issues. If you can't understand the issues that led to the SGO, you aren't going to get anywhere. Would some counselling be of help?

I have a family members child on sgo. The child is 9, been with me since 3. Child now refuses all contact with the parent..doesn't want their phone calls won't open their letters or cards. How these kids feel will constantly change. My lo currently feels let down and angry about the fact his parents let him down by needing family to step in. He's entitled to feel this way. It's not my job to persuade him otherwise or to make him see his parents just to make the parents feel better. Court contact can't be enforced if the child doesn't want to do it.
I'd advise respecting the child's wishes and sending letters/card at a consistent rate to the sgo team for them to forward to the child.
Go via the sgo team because they will keep a copy of everything and file it for the child. That way if you think the ago holders aren't passing on your letters then when the child gets their file they will see you did bother.

Im going to put 2 points of view on here.

First a very close friend of mine, her teemage son was in a relationship with a teenage girl who lost her mum at an early age, dad became an alcoholic and she self harmed yo cope with her emotions, SS were involved but she wasnt taken into care. He moved into the house she shared with her dad to support her. SS played a massive role in their lives from the minute she was pregnant due to her age and background trauma. My friend obviously stepped up to support and I think this, and having a caring partner, stopped the child being taken into care. My friend was shocked at how intrusive it was but she understood it was for the protection of the baby.

As a foster parent I try and and support birth parents to have a positive relationship with their children.
Some children have a need to please their parents and will say what they believe their parents want to hear.
Some children, when they feel safe, such as on the telephone, will say they want to see the parent but actually the thought of meeting up is really quite scary (for various reasons that may or may not be factual , but are true to the child).

This can also be that they really DO want to see their parent but actually the emotion can be too much for them to cope with and that high emotion can cause them to become disregulated. We always went to supervised contact with the knowledge we could leave if they wanted to. It gave them some control in a life they have very little control of.

Regardless.of how.contact goes we have to deal with the aftermath of their emotions afterwards and that can be very distressing to see. We have regularly had...
Why am I so bad? Why can't mum/dad do the right thing/make the changes to look after me? Why am I not worth it? What is wrong with me?

It doesn't matter if these are not true but its often their belief.

Thank you for explaining the fact you are seeing your son and not your daughter (care order/SGO) even though they live together as I was struggling to see why there was a difference. I think this also probably difficult for both kids to understand. I imagine your son talks about seeing you which could cause further confusion for your daughter.

If your authority has someone from the SGO team uou could talk to I'd ask what they suggest you can do to support your daughter, or maybe your SW, or ask the grandparents, away from the children, how they feel uou can support her, writing letters, once a month? It needs to be something YOU need to be able to cope with as well, broken promises are another let down.
Reassure her you are not going anywhere and you are happy to move at her pace and if that is only letters/calls, thats how it is.
I know YOU want more but that is not child centred, that is looking at your needs instead of prioritising your daughter's.
Being an honest / reliable person is the first steps to building a relationship, however that looks.
I really do hope that you are able to develop.a relationship with your daughter. X x

This @Marie299 take this advice.

fwiw - I don’t think GP are influencing your daughter if you have a fair relationship with your son and perhaps she’s just saying what she thinks you want to hear. All you can do is keep telling her you love her and you want to see her when she is ready and that you’re so sorry that you weren’t in a good place when you were younger to care for her.

maybe she’ll come round maybe she won’t.

but you have to accept that the therapy may well be for the trauma resulting of being removed from you.

im not sure if SS can give you any further help or info and im not sure that trying to go to court to enforce contact is right either but i wish you all well

Agree. OP, you should get MN to move this to Legal.

AIBU is not the best place for this discussion, and I predict that as more people log on this morning you're going to get more and more replies seeing this solely from your daughter's perspective and having very little patience for your perspective.

I believe you, OP. I work alongside social services sometimes. Care leavers are marked early on and everything they do can be twisted into a negative. I’ve seen children removed from care leavers where real support would have made the difference. I’ve scratched my head many a time at the different expectations.

I believe you. Be consistent with your daughter and be led by her. Love her and be a support, even when she pushes you away and tests you. She’ll be confused about how she feels about you.