Kids in care

Yes - that situation is an excellent example of how stigma and discrimination plays out in real time. Being on the receiving end of it isn’t nice, but I have to be honest - I expect the people making these ignorant statements hold the same sort of views themselves; there certainly isn’t any critical thought going on.

As a sociologist and former care-leaver I’m horrified but not surprised by the attitudes expressed on this post.

Did both your children go into care because of your choice in partners and you not leaving them? I know a few women who were teen mums and they kept their children.

You've nailed it.

Well said. Readers should perhaps be reminded that the some of the victims of the child rapist gangs (often called 'grooming' gangs) had social workers trying to take their children into care. This was based on the repugnant attitude that the victims were 'those sort' of girls', chose to be with their rapists and even that some of them were madams, procuring girls for the offenders.

One girl known as Amber, a victim of the Rochdale gang, was forbidden by social workers from leaving hospital after giving birth. It was only the intervention of the wonderful Maggie Oliver who got Amber a good solicitor, that prevented the baby being removed. Oliver describes Amber as a 'great little mum's.

It almost makes me laugh when some people so wisely say stuff like: 'social workers can't do that' or 'there's got to be far more to this'.

I’m not talking about what is true or not, because of course nobody here can verify that either way.

I am talking about the people who are offering very ignorant insights as to how the care system operates… Those people are instantly recognisable, but those comments are not nice for people in a difficult spot to read. They actually go some way in perpetuating a positive feedback cycle when people see their lived reality distorted by ignorant commenters. People need to think before they type but ofc they won’t, so I will be replying to those people strongly.

While there are various posters whose experience backs up the OP's claims, there are many others who also claim very valid experience suggesting the opposite. None of us here have any way of knowing which is true in @Marie299 's case. Maybe she is in complete denial about her own behaviour or maybe she was let down very badly by the system - and of course it's possible for two different things to be true at once.

Either way, a nine year old is too young to understand the complexities of any of this but she will certainly be confused and conflicted about the situation. @Marie299, whatever you feel or believe about how your daughter ended up in care, you would be wise not to place any of those feelings on her. If you were such a bad mother that SS feared for your child, she will of course hold that against you, particularly if she feels you aren't taking any responsibility for that now. If you believe you weren't that bad, just needed a bit of support and don't accept the SS view of the situation, she'll probably still believe you should have done more, been better, fought harder and that you are refusing to accept that. You're not going to look good in her eyes whatever the case, the truth doesn't really matter here. The only feelings about the situation you should express to her are extreme regret and sadness at the outcome and contrition for whatever your part in it was or wasn't. Focus on making sure she knows how different you are now and how hard you've worked to improve your life.

Apart from that, do exactly as others have suggested with gentle, regular, no-pressure contact focused on her and her life.

What sort of relationship do you have with her grandparents? Can and do you communicate well with them? If not, it would be a good idea to try, probably in the same way. Go in humble and be led by their response. They are probably your best way to get a foot in the door.

Why are you people, who know precisely nothing about the social care system and the discrimination care-experienced individuals face always the ones who are so loud and proud about their ignorance?

I have a bachelors degree in social sciences, and a masters in social research methods. But what makes me an expert is navigating first an abusive family situation, and later on the abusive care system.

Please believe me, you sound utterly uninformed and ridiculous when you comment on these posts where it’s immediately obvious you have absolutely no wisdom to convey, nor any practical knowledge of what you’re offering up an opinion on.

No it isn’t!

Have you read any of the posts from those who have lived experience and those that have worked in this field?!

As many posters hav said social services can and do discriminate unfavourably towards young mothers in care. It happens time and time again.

Nonsense! 🤬

It's good that you've got yourself on an even keel with a job, home and loving partner, but the bottom line is that DD is unlikely to want to move in with you and your DP than to stay in the stable home she knows. You are still her mother, hence her pull towards you in moments, but that's not going to be consistent. If you can focus on whether she (and DS) are doing well where they are and see what is possible to build your relationship with them from there in a positive way that isn't about uprooting or disturbing their equilibrium but only adding to it. As a PP said, therapy is the place to work through your issues with the grandparents, if you carry those with you into the situation, they can only be harmful overall.

It doesn't actually matter who is "right".

What happened happened.

The daughter has suffered because of it, and probably holds OP responsible for that.

OP is extremely defensive to any suggestion she might be responsible for anything that's happened.

Her DD is going to feel let down by that.

God, I wish some of the posters with oh-so-much-faith in the system as it is would bother to read the experiences of care leavers on this thread.

My two cents, which you can take or not take...

The view of SS and the view your daughter will have is that you failed to adequately parent her and her brother. Your daughter will have experienced trauma because of that and further trauma by being removed from your care.

Your view is that you did nothing wrong, that SS took her away from you for no real reason and the reason she is therapy has nothing to do with trauma, she has just developed emotional difficulties at random.

You also think that what's happened in the past is irrelevant, but to your daughter, it's directly impacting on her whole life still.

She probably feels like she can't trust you because you're not able to take accountability to what happened to her and don't recognise the magnitude of it.

@Marie299 - you want to move forward, quite rightly. Well done for asking for advice. In basic terms, treat your daughter as another person that you are interested in, ask her questions, listen.
What do you know about her already?
What are her interests? Link to these.
What do you regularly and consistently do now?
Do you write every week, consistently so that your daughter expects contact?
What else do you already do that is working well? Build on it.

Some longer term steps.
Start with understanding
Accept how the child feels, even if it’s sad or hard to hear. She might feel angry, scared, or unsure. Don’t rush her or push for contact. Learn about her life now—what she likes, her friends, what she does every day. Try to understand who she is today.
Begin with small, gentle contact
If she doesn’t want to see you yet, try simple ways to keep in touch.
Send short letters or cards that are kind and easy to read.
Talk about small things you remember or things you’re doing that she might like to hear about.
Don’t say anything that makes her feel guilty or pressured.
You could also send a short video or voice message, if the grandparents agree. Always keep messages friendly and about her, not about missing her.

Work with her grandparents (and social worker-do school have Early Help/family workers?)
Be kind and respectful to the grandparents. They are caring for her now.
Talk to them and the social worker about how to start contact again.
Follow their advice.
Ask for help from family workers or people who help children and parents rebuild relationships.

When she’s ready, meet in small steps
If she agrees to meet, start slowly.
Meet for a short time in a safe, calm place like a park.
Do something together, like drawing, feeding ducks, or playing a game.
Keep things relaxed.
Always end the visit in a positive way so she feels good.
After each meeting, talk with the social worker/grandparents about how it went and what to do next.

Be reliable and calm
Show her you can be trusted.
Keep your promises.
Be calm and kind, even if things are difficult.
Don’t talk about grown-up problems with her.
Over time, she will start to trust you again if you stay consistent and caring.

Look after yourself too
It can be hard to rebuild contact.
Get support if you need it—talk to someone you trust, join a parent support group, or ask for help from a counsellor.
Learn about ways to connect with children who have had time apart, like using play and gentle curiosity.
Focus on her needs and feelings, not your guilt or sadness.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the time and effort you will need to put in.

This must be so hard. You are a survivor of a hard childhood and have been under so much more scrutiny than another parent because of this. Could you try to reframe it and look at it like your child has a loving family who are taking good care of her; social services want her to be happy and healthy and safe and are being - as you see it - overly protective? Could you be happy that she is safe and work on your own life and be there for her as much as you can? She will be very attached to her grandparents and be torn between you.

Why are you speaking to SW? Just do as you have been advised and go back to court for gp’s and father breaking the court agreement. Why would your dd think you taking her gp’s and father to court for them breaking the court order be against her other than her gp’s and father telling her lies to cover their own failings

When I have been on the phone to her she’s been asking when she can see me and then a few weeks down the line she does not want to speak to me or see me

I’ve seen her over the phone and she said she misses me and loves me and I say those things back and we chat about her school and what she’s being doing and it goes really well but then the minute she’s off the phone she says she doesn’t wanna see me

Is it your dd actually saying to you that she doesn’t want to see you or is it someone else telling you your dd doesn’t want to see you?

Look up parental alienation.

Agreed... This does sound extreme. But there is always context isn't there...

But as you'll know there has to be confidence that the parent will meet the future needs of the child surely?

My example? I was giving this to explain to those who haven't worked in children and families some of the issues - there can be overall a very positive assessment... But there will be an overarching unacceptable risk.

She had her children while she was in care and still a child herself. That support ends at 18 and then she's on her own. She has no family who could support her or a job to buy things for herself or her children. I understand why they removed her children. At 17 can a child realistically look after and provide for a baby with no support from family in the care system. The system failed her she should have been properly looked after by her foster parents not out there getting pregnant.

I believe you, OP. I don't know the system from the legal side, but I do think it should be made possible for you and your daughter to see each other. Otherwise, she might grow up thinking that you abandoned her and never wanted to fight for her.
'The best interest' of a child is a somewhat controversial term. I remember a case when a teenager was removed because she cursed at her mom and mom then slapped her. She complained to a friend at school and was removed that day and not allowed to go back home and the mother was told her daughter didn't want to see her ever. The thing is the daughter really wanted to go back very soon but was told it's not 'in her best interest'. She was basically imprisoned with her foster parents, not allowed outside and even taxied to school and back to prevent her from escaping. At that point she started self-harming, so she was sedated and medicated. All this was done 'in her best interest'. She was finally returned after 3 years, when she was considered to be mature enough to decide this for herself. It was a big, international case and the mother (a foreigner) took it to her government to help her fight the case. The embassy of that country now warns all the parents about the cultural differences regarding the parental rights and to be wary of the UK system.

My situation is almost identical to yours. I was watched by social services for years and years due to neglect, but never actually removed. My mother is oblivious and gaslights me whenever I mention anything. I have distanced myself from my parents as Ive got older because refusal to accept their own mistakes and how it affected me is a weight over my head that I'm tired of carrying. Some people just aren't fit to be parents and are too selfish to admit that.

How old is your son?

I think you need to talk to the social worker rather than the GP. Ask them how best you can support your child and what sort of contact do they think is in her best interests and why. Then I think you need to engage and cooperate with what they suggest, even if it's not ideal for you, something (being allowed to call her, send gifts and messages for example) is better than nothing. The only thing you have control over here is continuing to show your DD that you love her and that you do want a relationship with her. Even if this means you won't have the role in her childhood you would want, she's your daughter for life and there is time ahead for you to build a relationship for the future.

There’s been enough comments explaining parents who were in care themselves are treated harder than other parents by social services. My friend has a similar story to op, it’s assumed because they’re traumatised from being in care they won’t make good parents.

And being young yes they do treat you harder for that too I had one at 16 and another at 23. The difference in how doctors and everyone really treats you is night and day. So many things they just don’t care about if you’re older than 18

It sounds really difficult, but the truth is you just weren't in the correct place in your life back then to properly care for your children, having a child while you are in care yourself is not the best place to raise them, you know that and that's why you have fought so hard to make a better, stable life for yourself.

Unfortunately it seems that your daughters grandparents are all she's really known, and it sounds like she is under pressure from you to act like your daughter when really she doesn't feel that way, she may even feel guilt towards her grandparents if she starts to form a bond with you.

It is such an incredibly big ask of a 9 year old to understand why she ended up where she is, and why things are different now, YOU know exactly why in your mind, but she can't possibly be expected to understand or trust that things are completely different now, so she is going along with things in the moment then obviously feeling confused and upset afterwards.

I really feel for you, but you need to think about what is best for her now, and if what is best for her is to stop pushing phone/in person contact then you may just have to accept that, I think writing to her would be better, and keep it light and breezy, and slowly get to know her, writing doesn't force her to 'perform' in person, and you may be able to forge a bond that way, but you need to take all pressure off her IMO, remove all your expectations from her and hopefully she'll come to know you for you and want to have more contact.