To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

Still waiting for you to post what he wants to do so I can show you how many opportunities he can apply to, as a white male.

I know all of the Big 4 policies inside out, I can direct you to McKinsey’s and BCG’s programs, and I can also show you banking availability. All he’d be eligible for.

That is not a balanced post at all. You have just decided it is because someone who isn’t white has agreed with you. It’s the equivalent of Reform voters claiming the party isn’t racist because one or two deluded black and brown people support them.

I’m a brown women and wholly disagree with what the pp and you are saying. I have been involved in recruiting in my professional field for many years. First, while some posts like work experience are restricted to disadvantaged people, it is incredibly rare that actual jobs or graduate schemes are.

And the reason for work experience being given to disadvantaged and unrepresented groups? It’s because they have no other way of getting their foot in the door, because actual jobs are often set up in a way that makes it far harder for them to get them. Having the polish that comes from growing up with professional parents or going to private school offers a huge advantage in interviews over someone who was on free school meals and who didn’t socialise with other middle class people. But that polish makes no difference to how they actually perform in the role. Work experience gives them a small way of levelling up a little.

Just look at the world around you - mediocre white men have overinflated confidence and somehow rise to the top with far less talent than lots of others who simply don’t have the opportunities they had, despite being smarter and harder working. The work ethic and determination of some of the “diversity hires” I have seen far outstrips that of many white men; they had to work twice as hard to prove themselves if they come from a background where there is disadvantage.

They are a huge asset to the companies they join. THAT’s why companies run those programmes, they want to access the untapped talent. Do you really think companies whose first and foremost objective is profit, would run these programmes if it wasn’t helping them? It’s capitalism 101.

Your son has every door open to him, unlike those who come from backgrounds where they may have gone to school without enough to eat and still get all A*s, or have faced unconscious racism or sexism by teachers, or are refugees battling PTSD and uncertainty because of what they have suffered and still get firsts at top universities.

Perhaps you and he could take some time to consider that approaching applications with the attitude that being a white male is a disadvantage (and honestly, look around you to see how untrue that is) is what is preventing him from succeeding and maybe it would be worth considering that maybe he simply isn’t as good as the people he is applying against where those applications are open and he should work harder or build other skills. The world does not owe him a job, nor is it handing them out like sweets to “diversity hires”.

Overseas doctors are clearly taking UK doctor roles when they are allowed to compete with UK doctors on an equal basis. Every other country gives priority to their own citizens/residents. It is not complex at all - 10,000 uk FY2s applied for 10,000 specialist training places alongside 20,000 overseas doctors. Only 52% of UK FY2s manage to get a training place.

Just asked DS. He says a few schemes prioritised women and those eligible for school meals( not us) but there are plenty available for everyone. He didn't come across any asking about ethnicity.

I agree with this post 100%. I am of the same vintage, from an era just before DEI took hold. I worked in investment banking in NY and London , as well as asset management. I was hired for my skills, perceived ability and degrees. I was not hired to fill a quota for a non-white hire.

DEI ostensibly started off as a means of ensuring an equality of opportunity, but has got twisted to equality of outcome, something it was never meant to be, because the latter results in inherently unfair hiring practices towards the majority.

As a separate matter, finding internships as an entry-level graduate in London (if that’s where your son is looking) in asset management, equity analyst/credit analyst and Tier 1 investment banking grad schemes is extremely challenging. This is regardless of ethnicity and sex. When you layer on DEI targets, it’s all the more challenging. I don’t dispute that. It can be very hard to hire a candidate that fits the bill in terms of the job, without very senior management stepping in and saying a female would be ‘ideal’ so that the firm can look ‘good’ for diversity factors.

I am a non-white woman and have held my own in a male-dominated industry and I’m frankly very happy I wasn’t born 20 years later. I can say this with 100% certainty , based on a decade of experience in the City, that a DEI push over the last 10-15 years has resulted in a large number of women working in senior investment roles, who a) likely would not have got the job if they weren’t female; and b) are very mediocre to bad in their jobs.

The emphasis on virtue signaling by large financial services firms has got worse in recent years (they don’t necessarily believe in it, they just don’t want headline risk) and so now a white female will stand a lower chance versus an equally or lower qualified non-white female. DEI is fast losing ground in the City, and also in big financial hubs like NY, but it will take time to get back to equilibrium; right now, it is very much out of balance.

OP, your son will find an internship, it may not be exactly what he wants, but my suggestion is, start in a lower name firm, get a little experience and then apply for the bulge brackets. Once you get a little experience under your belt, the DEI element reduces quite a bit in hiring decisions.

Your recruitment was very poor if you couldn’t manage to find a woman who could do the role regardless of the target to get one. Women are 50% of the population

Your son doesn’t need an internship as he’ll be ahead of others when applying for grad jobs after uni merely for being a white male. The internships are there to bring equally qualified minorities up to the same level of “privilege” as your son’s sex and race give him.

You’re in medicine and think men are not male?

What would you count as well represented? White doctors are under-represented in the NHS compared to the population.

Depends what you mean by senior role. I would say that Band 8a and above are senior in the NHS and it does not take 10 years plus to reach those roles.
Workforce planning is a whole other topic and boiling it down to "overseas people taking our jobs" may be easier narrative but the reality is far more complex

That is dreadful. We should really prioritise British doctors who trained here.

I’m in medicine and white men (not “males”) are definitely still well represented amongst newly qualified doctors. All interview shortlisting is done with redacted application forms - we don’t have access to EDI date at this stage.

Why do you believe that grad schemes dont have opps for white males? They do!

Regardless of OP"s whining.

So in the wider sense of privilege she has already won the lottery simply by NOT being black, a refugee, a traveller, disabled, PP, in care etc etc.

How many more advantages do you think she needs to be given to make up for not ticking boxes? Super model good looks, perfect pitch, parents best friends with the CEO of international companies, generous financial legacy from granny, athletic prowess …………

But if no or very few grad schemes have openings for white males then how can all these white males get on them?

it takes more than ten years to reach senior roles (and then they stay in them until retirement). And it is not just lower paid jobs that are recruited from abroad. 48% of UK FY2 doctors this year failed to find specialist training and were left unemployed whilst thousands of overseas doctors were recruited to specialist training posts instead.

Also, I hate to bore on about it but many target unis and grad schemes are looking for FM, especially for analyst roles.

If your kid didnt take FM and has not got on a grad scheme, it's not because they are white. It could be because they didn't take FM.

Well the percentage of BME at senior levels in the NHS still doesn't relect the overall percentage of BME 10 years ago.

As to why we like to recruit people from overseas to do the lower paid jobs in the NHS ... that's a whole other thread

My brown son applied for more than a 100 . Feedback was that he didn't suit the corporate culture and was rubbish at personality tests. So he worked harder at those and learned how to " fit in". And was successful.

Meanwhile my DD who didn't work quite as hard and doesn't have as good grades didnt get on a grad scheme. Her fault as she didn't put in that effort. We dont whine about racism. She will try again after acquiring more skills.

@pikkumyy77 - you’ve got all the cliches there. Old boys club? So every white boy from no matter where is definitely taking advantage of the old boys club ?

Why do you want to demonise and punish blameless individuals?

Betcha call a dreaded man when you need a removal company or your drains are blocked. They’re good enough for that, eh?

I was obviously joking really couldn’t give less of shit if you or anyone think I’m privileged, I don’t play the sob story olympics, my employer thinks I’m mixed race and bisexual, I have zero qualifications or previous work experience and working a pretty cushty job considering my poor life decisions as a youngster

I am privileged and technically stole an opportunity from someone who isn’t with my bullshittery😉 oh well you do what you have to in 2025

I can say that publishing is really bad. There seems a concerted effort to eliminate men full stop, no matter what their creed or colour (trans excepted - but then I suppose they are women (!) ).

You’d have thought in the interests of diversity they would want a few males, but no. Not welcome.

So your answer to right the wrong of historical discrimination against coloured minorities is to recreate discrimination today against the white majority today.

You do realise that the white children of today are not responsible for the discrimination that took place in the past.

I am aware that many businesses have pledged that they will hire a certain amount of ethnic groups and other marginalised groups, as for so long they have been overlooked.

‘Overlooked for so long’ or because the demographics of the UK population has been undergoing huge and rapid change? Don’t believe the BBC historical dramas - the non-white ethnic groups made up only a tiny proportion of the UK population until forty/fifty years ago.

Your son’s experience does not prove this doesn’t exist

Exactly - senior positions will in time reflect the make-up of the workforce. But if you’re 60 then when starting out your peers would not have been very diverse.