To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

So one company is running a couple of scheme at present that your son can’t apply to (and you have not looked at any of the other posts they have offered over the whole year) and your reaction is to start a MN post To think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates” which you describe as only “slight” hyperbole? Do you really not see how that comes across?

If your son has applied for over 100 posts as you set out in your OP, then that demonstrates that a) he has not been precluded from applying from many, many, roles and b) he isn’t as good as the other candidates.

I understand that it must be hard to see your son applying and failing. As a mother, I’m sure I’d feel sad too. But to suggest it’s some form of reverse racism, classicism or sexism and blame it on the few schemes that attempt to get the best possible candidates from a pool of untapped talent is awful. I re-iterate, these companies care only about profit; there is no way they would run these schemes if they didn’t think it would help get them the best possible personnel. They are hired for those roles despite the disadvantage they suffer, not because of it. Your attitude is deeply depressing.

I think there is some confusion amongst some posters - I don't think we are yet at equality, it is equity that these schemes promote and they are almost always in addition to the general recruiting rounds (I speak from extensive global management consultancy experience and not finance). I used to host an event every single month for new joiners over the last two years and there are plenty white men knocking about.

I do agree about white working class boys/men, but that is a societal issue that needs addressing - it is about role models, mentors, recognising the value of education, breaking cycles. That is far, far bigger than the corporate world alone (though playing their part helps).

So why do you think their applicants were white if not class, education or Oxbridge?

You’re very welcome. If it’s an option, offering to do an unpaid internship / apprenticeship is also another way to get his foot in the door.

FWIW, I wouldn’t describe your DS as privileged, it sounds like you and your DH worked hard to help him get an easier start in life.

There is quite a bit of irony with the use of the word ‘privilege’ these days - with it generally meaning that those who are ethnically white are almost by default privileged (patently untrue).

In contrast, I know that my background very much is, as that of my peers, and a lot of us are not white. I had an upper-middle class upbringing with highly educated professional parents and grandparents. My parents and I went to Ivy League schools in the US and their equivalent in the UK. So I should never have been (and thankfully never was) a DEI hire because that would have been wrong.

So you’re applying an incredibly unusual situation to normal employed life.

you know that the vast majority of jobs we aren’t scrambling around to find women who could perform.

if you company really cared they’d be looking at grass roots to capture women early on and developed from within ie apprenticeships. Not throwing their hands up saying may as well just hire the few shit women who got into the profession

It’s a bit misleading to say “inner city”. Companies have local outreach and partnerships with their local community but to indicate that they’re picking through secondary schools to find the poor purely on the basis it isn’t a private school so must be populated with paupers is really misapplying the point of these partnerships.

most companies would use a mix of criteria to identify disadvantage- post code and parents education level being common ones.

We were hoping for someone better than competent!!! But actually, yes, it was a high specialised role and unfortunately the woman we eventually hired has underperformed.

What I would have liked to have done would be to hire the candidate we considered that would do the best job.

Your son has every door open to him

This clearly isn’t true as OP is complaining about closed doors. But the more general point is these DEI initiatives look at the population, not the individual. There are plenty of very privileged people in ethnic minority groups, and more and more with contacts. So while you might think ‘yeah, my diversity initiative is bringing in oppressed individuals’, you might still be recruiting just very privileged individuals with parents with professional backgrounds etc.

I also noted a PP mention ‘inner city’ as a measure of disadvantage - yet cities offer a lot more advantages than someone living in the Welsh Valleys, Blackpool or Clacton. London has better state schools, museums, libraries, opportunities to see and get involved in outreach schemes etc., or even just seeing ‘how the other half live’ and the ambition that can bring.

I do agree to an extent, I am all for the outreach into different groups but at the moment it seems that there are no other opportunities. My son applied for various summer internships, didn't even get a reply and the finance one he went for someone said that if we were on free school meals he would have got on. Yet we aren't a family who can compete with the privately educated elected, or are just normal people and purple kids seem to miss out as they are not one or the other.

Yes. Such approaches approve the diversity stats which can be important in the relevant company securing certain lucrative private panels or contracts or in securing government work. However if you look at the upper echelons of management in these companies you’ll find that the diversity isn’t reflected further up! It’s all form over substance.



Being privately educated and middle class isn’t exclusive to white people.
Why have you brought a stat about white people into it?

But what you’re saying is you can’t find a competent female? The only competent applicants just happen to be men?

@justnottinghill You are somewhat missing the point. They are advertised for everyone but in practice placements and apprenticeships are used to recruit from the minorities mentioned. This is done to balance the recruitment stats because they know standard recruitment will probably be skewed towards white middle class candidates.

As for any firm having 80% Oxbridge! A few barristers Chambers in London - who else? I doubt this is truthful. If it is, name and shame!

One point about FM, many schools do not offer it. If they don't you are more likely to be in an area with fewer staff and enough students to justify it. It just compounds disadvantage for some students.

White students as a proportion of UK domiciled students are under-represented at Oxford. And across the student body as a whole, white new students became a minority at Oxbridge in 2023.

We were recruiting for a specialised technical role where 70% of graduates are male and a postgraduate qualification was needed. Our existing team was 70% male, and so representative of the population with the required qualifications. Our new CEO decided that we had to be 50/50.

As there are only a few new staff per year and not many leave, the only way to meet the 'target' was for new hires to be almost exclusively female. And that is what we were told to do.

Using exactly your language - there must be a female who can do the job, so just hire them. Interview performance, qualifications, experience did not matter, only that they were the correct sex.

Or was it that oxbridge candidates are more likely to be privately educated middle class and therefore confident in all aspects of corporate life?

I work in fintech consultancy. I am surrounded by privately-educated, white, middle-class men.

We recently advertised for a junior consultant role (not entry level - approx one year PQ) and, out of 250 applicants, NOT ONE was female. All male, and of that number, approximately 80% were privately educated.

The successful candidate was, as expected, a privately-educated, white, middle-class man. Quelle surprise.

I just find you funny.

She couldn’t apply to the very few ones for disadvantaged students. Why didn’t she apply for the copious number for anyone? Stop using the few schemes to level up against the disadvantaged because your child wasn’t good enough.

Thank you. Only those with white kids are shouting “disadvantage” and can’t accept the reality of the situation.

I was DEI Champion and still had 95% white Oxbridge as our grad cohort. It was exhausting.

Actually I’m aware of several sizeable organisations that use AI for the first filter.

This means that privately educated persons or those without a protected characteristic — depending on settings - will never get further through the process , however otherwise meritorious.