To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

In what way is it "doing more harm than good"?

I disagree.

At the risk of once again screaming futilely into the void, I am going to share my own personal experience as a disabled person who benefited from graduate schemes aimed at people with disabilities at the beginning of my career in the hope that it may offer food for thought to some of the posters on here bewailing all of the special treatment supposedly being showered on people like me.
I have been severely disabled all my life, born without eyeballs and with multiple joint deformities. I was extremely fortunate to have amazing parents who were able to advocate for me and ensure I had an excellent education, which allowed me to graduate with a first class degree from a top university. Following graduation I benefited from being accepted on graduate hire schemes aimed at disabled people. In order for me to be enabled to work I require a great deal of specialist support. This includes adaptive technology, special equipment and physical assistance while at work to get me to and from work and to help me get around, to appointments etc. and with other work and personal tasks I cannot carry out myself while at work.
Most employers are unable or unwilling to offer such a high level of support and most workplaces would not be able to accommodate me in any role.
Graduate schemes specifically aimed at disabled people were an absolute lifeline. They enabled me to connect with disabled-friendly employers who had the ability, the expertise and above all the will to accommodate me. This both saved me fruitlessly applying to companies who would never consider employing me and also put me in contact with an accessibility-minded group of employers which has stood me in good stead throughout my career.
I am aware that this first-hand account will do little to win over posters on here, who will still be outraged at the notion their able-bodied little darlings are being denied opportunities because of someone like me, but I bet these are the same posters who endlessly infest posts on here whinging about worthless work-shy disabled benefits scroungers.
I am very fortunate to have had the opportunities I have had, the vast majority of severely disabled people are not so lucky. Had these schemes not existed, it is doubtful I would be in employment at all, let alone the rich and fulfilling career I currently enjoy.

honestly I encourage anyone who’s reading this with white male or even white female kids to just lie. Say you’re bisexual or gay say you’re mixed race (an ambiguous term that could mean half polish half English they have no way to prove you’re lying)

They will give you preferential treatment if you tick diversity boxes, I was a secondary school drop out teen mum with no previous work experience and now working a relatively cushty job considering all that, after I lied. Strange considering all the rejections while being honest about being straight and white.

Is it fair to lie? Probably not. But it’s not fair that they discriminate either so play them at their own game

I think diversity hiring needs to be dialled back as it’s now doing more harm than good. We need to find fairer ways to address inequality.

It’s hugely competitive out there right now. Plenty of graduates are struggling to find work, let alone kids fresh out of college. Apprenticeships are like gold dust. You can usually opt out of the diversity questions, just select ‘prefer not to say’ to enable a blind application.

What have I even said about white boys? 🤨 quite a lot of uncontrolled drama llama in your post. I guess it’s easier to throw wild accusations about than discuss under representation.

I’m not saying that there aren’t ignorant people who don’t understand reality and believe this, nor that in the face of rising racism over the last 5-10 years that there might not be more of them, but that is no reason to stop these handful of schemes. I want those brilliant and talented but disadvantaged candidates in the workforce, and plainly so do some companies who recognise the huge untapped potential there exists.

Yes. Last year. She's in her first term at Cambridge.

@Bambamhoohoo do you not like white boys? Are they all the same? All - every single one of them - privileged, probably privately-educated and, let us not forget - entitled to boot.

It’s one thing seeing the merits of diversity endeavours and another being rather malicious towards a group of people.

This one made me laugh as DD2 was always the second violinist in any string quartet photo the school used. The other (much better) good violinist in her year was never asked and fumed about it. The reason - DD was white, the cellist they always used was black and the other violinist and the violist were Chinese - as was DD's classmate......

Yabu.

The thread title says 'grad and apprenticeships' which strongly suggests jobs. Thats just not true.

This link is to various outreach programmes. Some as short as a day.

She was inundated with offers? Was this last year - because she’s the only one I’ve heard of who was.

I work for a plc.

there are thousands of people in positions of power in this organisation. They know how to get their children into a plc. They have the contacts. You don’t have to be CEo. It’s common to know how to navigate the corporate world.

it’s common in my world, at least. The child whose parent works as a hairdresser? I’d suggest they’re at a disadvantage compared to my children.

A lot of people often do think that brown/black/gay people, and women, only got where they were because they were diversity hires. I’m hearing people saying things like this more and more. For example, one of my daughter’s school friends was chosen to take part in a highly competitive international university exchange programme. She told me her old school friends all think he got picked because he is black. I spoke to my son last week and he said he’d met a nice girl but he didn’t like her friends. I asked why and he said he didn’t like the sort of things they said eg one of them tried out for the editorship of a university newspaper but she didn’t get it. They all said they knew why: the boy who was chosen was black and gay.
I know that women, people of all different races, gay people etc can be just as hard working and clever as white males. I’m just pointing out that their successes will be called into question the more diversity hiring goes on.

what does best mean? It’s an internship, there is no best. None of the applicants know what they’re doing.

why wouldn’t the minority applicants be best, not just for their abilities but because they’re best for the companies future too.

Really? My DD was inundated with offers for maths/CompSci schemes from Nuffield/BigAccounting etc. Bog standard state high school, white, not from low income. Do you live in a high quintile Polar area 4/5? I think this is what they're looking at now.

Agreed. I find it so saddening that 20 years ago we were crying out to get these amazing opportunities for under represented groups. I can’t imagine how proud I would’ve been to work for an organisation doing this.

20 years later the backlash is coming from the middle aged sharp elbowed and they’re actively stopping progress because their children might not find their lives as easy as it used to be. Because they’re upset that they can no longer smash the exams and get a lifetime of reward.

It’s controversial but I’m of the view that someone has to suffer for us to achieve equality. Because privileged white men have taken what wasn’t theirs, and sharing some of it back means they lose it. That doesn’t mean it was ever legitimately theirs though

But very very few from any demographic has the privilege of the sort of contacts and knowledge you suggest. Most middle class white men certainly don’t. How big do you think this CEOs son’s private school class was?

Surely it should be whoever is best for the assignment.
Honestly you sound a bit racist here “plenty of spaces for white men and women”.

Apprenticeship in financial industry. 2500 applications for 17 roles. It is highly competitive.

Is it at all possible that your son just isn't as strong a candidate as those who are successful? Perhaps he could focus more on strengthening his CV to give him a better chance.

I think we're a long way from white males being considered disadvantaged.

Isn't the reason they needed a tie breaker that you were all equally 'the best person for the role'? The 3 of you had gone through a very rigorous merit based process that had failed to yield an outright 'best' person. So what should they have done to decide? Toss a coin?

The title of this post is misleading and just says everything about middle-class, white privilege.

Yes, it can be frustrating that a small number of internships (not grad jobs or apprenticeships) are restricted to certain demographics, but imagine being from one of those demographics, desparate to get in to that particular industry but having no idea how? The reason this is happening is because these sectors are full of white, middle class privilege whose parents knew some major player, who knew how to navigate the application process, who went to some (private school) where the CEO's child was in the same class.

As I said my DD did not get on a grad scheme despite being a brown woman.
She freely admits she didn't work hard enough in uni during the pandemic. It's not because of racism. She is now working her way up.

Never a good idea to encourage DC to be victims, whatever race you are.