To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

Coming from a WC family would not be 'poor in my words'. I would use the word poor to refer to people living below the poverty line. Many WC people do not live below the PL and class and financial means though often linked, are not the same thing. Most people who live below the PL (the definition of poor) would be entitled to FSM.
However I do agree eligibility for FSM is not a fool proof way to capture all people disadvantaged by wealth inequality. But it's a difficult one to measure as there are flaws to most options, and it's better than nothing.

I continue to find it shocking, the degree to which people think this phrase somehow justifies the most base examples of direct discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics.

Rather than blaming diversity hiring practices, think about what your son can do to improve his chances.

Those with some paid work history that draws out transferable skills, or relevant volunteering, stand out more when, as a hiring manager, you are faced with reviewing 100 CVs.

It’s tough at the moment for most young people entering the job market, so I do empathise with anyone trying to keep their young people motivated.

Child tax credit has slowly been replaced by universal credit for years now, barely anyone left claiming child tax credit.

That said, what employers are asking about how low earning your parents were? Is this a new thing? It was always just ethnicity and sexuality when I was job hunting three years ago

Oh knock it off OP. What shite.

I was a working single parent and didn't get FSM

@RubySquid Er? No. See attached. It’s not that difficult. Dsis did by working part time as a single parent. Dad of three dc just around the corner but they didn’t marry.

Well, whatever you’ve heard is not true. I work in grad recruitment for a global investment bank, & have worked in more than 1, and whilst we make sure programmes are in place, and there’s a diverse slate, the reality is that it’s actually quite a balanced outcome. It is hugely competitive and the banks, especially investment banks are not in the habit of hiring people unless they’re pretty sure they’re the best hires they can possibly make. And sometimes that is not the white male!

FSM? You can come from a working class family ( poor in your words) and not qualify for those. Think its only the unemployed that gets them. Not general low earning families

Edit. Just looked and you need an income of 7400 or less a year to qualify. That's less than 16 hours on minimum wage. Yet for full uni funding the household income has to be about £25k. And those getting full funding are considered low income families

I’m not sure large employers do take much notice of connections via family. However some do. BBC and journalism definitely. The sons and daughters of famous people get a very good leg up! However in many companies it’s not this easy.

It’s definitely poor white boys who achieve less in schools. They are probably the least represented. Many immigrant families see education as being very important in order to escape poverty. The Brits just moan about it!

The criteria for the scheme OP is complaining about includes receipt of FSM, and does not exclude applicants on the basis of being white, so educated poor white boys would be eligible.

I never applied for grad schemes - why? Just look at the comments.

How could a woman who hit every widening participation indicator whilst at university apart from not being in care/ethnicity, be picked for a graduate scheme? That would be incredulous!

You know as a woman, whose mum at the age of 14 claimed benefits and we got free school meals. We didn't have much growing up - I mean I had to do my GCSE's and A-levels without no internet or laptop, as we couldn't afford one. I had to rely on the generosity of teachers - only the ones that believed in me - to photocopy pages out of textbook, as well as having to use EMA to go towards food/travel costs. There was no part-time jobs around - this was in the middle of the global recession.

We never had the money to do 'extra-curricular' activities, we were just surviving, if there was a question at a grad scheme, how did you navigate a challenging situation, I can imagine the shock on the faces of some of the interviewers on here.

Oh, and lets add in the fact that, I'm also neurodiverse - ADHD/dyslexia - and the support for students were less-existent when I was growing up. However, I was 'allowed' into a top University as mature student. I received scholarships and bursaries. For me to be able attend university, it is a privilege - none of my family has been to college, let alone University.

I didn't get A*s at GCSE's and A levels, but you know I was very proud of gaining some, especially when we had house repossessions/evictions for two years. I'm surrounded by people who haven't got GCSE's, and in many ways, the education system has let them down!

As a widening participation student, I participated in outreach events, and I just knew the corporate life wasn't for me. I weren't prepared to sell my soul to work in a corporate environment. I just knew it wouldn't be safe as a working class woman to work in one. University was hard enough. The class divide was massive. "Oh my parents work in finance, my parents work high up in healthcare and they still earn 40k on part time hours".

In many ways, working part-time with people from similar background, was the balance I needed throughout Uni.

However, whilst I didn't get good GCSE's or A-Levels, but I did get a first class degree, and won awards. I managed to get a job straightaway in a more relaxed environment, and I've never felt uncomfortable due to my social background at all.

So don't worry disadvantaged students aren't stealing any grad scheme spots, but I understand and can appreciate that your son worked very hard for his grades - which are amazing :) well done to him! I'm sure something will come up for him - it's just hard in the current circumstances - but something always works out :)

Well you said about the "poor white boys with no education" wouldn't be going in for this type of scheme anyway which is fair enough. But the" poor" white boys with education neither have the MC white boys contacts etc, nor qualify for the diversity schemes being white boys.

So surely that puts them in the worst position of all

What about them?

It’s quite easy for both things to be true, if you think about it.

How about poor white boys with education?

I don’t think it’s bonkers, considering that most medical graduates are women ( 60%) now and this should be reflected in senior leadership roles.

The two examples given are entirely different because they refer to the disadvantage/'disadvantage' of two entirely different groups of boys, the only thing they have in common being their sex and skin colour.
Poor white boys with no education wouldnt have a chance of getting on to the sort of scheme the OP is complaining about, regardless of diversity measures aimed at other ethnicities.
And I'd be willing to bet most people complaining on here wouldnt give a damn about that as long as their boy got in. Because the only time white poor people become of interest to white privileged people is when it's handy to false/force team with them to appropriate their disadvantage.

It obviously makes you feel better to make this all about me rather than actually listening to what I am saying (and many managers in my firm say the same). Trust me, if I was bad at my job, I would not be here after 20 years.
I very much doubt you work in a large organisation (or at least it would be very different to mine) the way you post.

I think the discussion on this thread is a good reason to move away from categorising people, and switch to blind hiring.

Our society is changing quickly. We meed to stay unified, and we mustn’t let doubt and resentment creep in. CVs without names would be better.

I day this as someone who just didn't have what people were looking for in my field. Maybe he just isn't as high calibre as the other candidates. I did additional courses and volunteering to boost myself. They need a full rounded human not a droid. Maybe he just hasn't got it yet.

Do you deny that PoC had historically had to change their names to John and Sid because otherwise their CVs would be rejected just for their funny foreign names? There are surveys on this too.
We could go back and forth with this all day.

It's just amazing to me that if a white person's son does not get on an incredibly competitive grad scheme in an incredibly competitive industry, it must be because a black woman has taken his place, though there are many, many schemes open to all.

No PoC would be able to get away with saying this. My DD didn't get on a scheme. Did I start a thread alleging special treatment? Did I heck.

Well, surely you can see the two examples you gave are totally different? Do you deny that white working class boys and men are disadvantaged despite statistics showing otherwise? Does that not fit with your agenda? Do you deny that by refusing inclusivity in certain job roles and recruitment drives to white candidates that that represents a disadvantage to them?

No, I didn't for a moment think they were. But was giving the poster who claimed otherwise the opportunity to explain how this could possibly be the case.

Ok, but my point still stands that if you - as YOU said - are consistently hiring poorly performing individuals, that makes you a bad hiring manager. Perhaps your "firm" should take another look at who they give management positions to.

OP and her son are not right and your inability to hire competent staff is not evidence that they are.