To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

Absolutely. I work in pharmaceuticals and we recruit people from Oxbridge, RG and local ex polys. In the main the people with middle class backgrounds went to Oxbridge and RG, the 'working class, first in their family to University' people went to the local ex polys. Obviously you get some exceptions to this (we have a Oxbridge reject Uni nearby that takes a decent number of local candidates and they have all, not surprisingly, been exceptional). But the middle class kid who scrapped a third rate degree from a good University is always less hard working and driven than a working class kid with a good degree from a less prestigious institute.

ETA: I also have two RG/Oxbridge degrees.

I read something somewhere that traders had bigger egos and lied more than than psychopaths...

The Bulge bracket is not where I would go for an unbiased opinion on the calibre of non Oxbridge / Russell Group university graduates.

I met someone who trades securities at JP Morgan. He scoffed at the idea that they hire uni blind and says they do take into account the university the applicant went to.

I know a lot of securities traders, they’re not all dicks. Although the proportion tends to be higher at certain banks, JP being one of them. They’ll catch up with the 21st century eventually (or get left behind). Whether they like it or not.

I’d say part of the problem companies with diversity programmes are trying to address is this notion that a graduate is ‘better’ because of the university they attended.

As I said in a previous post, it’s quite possible that large organisations are waking up to the fact that a lot of their problems have historically been caused by middle class men who went to Oxbridge.

On average the student who went to Cambridge is better than the student who went to hull. And you do know it does say how smart the person is. Not all degrees are made equally.

I met someone who trades securities at JP Morgan. He scoffed at the idea that they hire uni blind and says they do take into account the university the applicant went to.

I just can’t believe this. DEI is old. Why are people suddenly so interested in it if not related to the rise of the far right in the western world?

As an employer, all which university a candidate attended tells me is how smart/privileged someone was at 17.

As someone who knows a reasonable amount about the university sector, I’m well aware that less prestigious universities can do a fantastic job allowing students to flourish where they might not have at school.

And I’ve got two degrees from what MN would consider ‘top’ universities, btw.

When did you last apply for a job? Currently students go through online assessments and can be 5 steps down before they meet a person so the process is "blind".

Shall we impose the same quota that primary school teachers must be 50% male, so that - given the pool of applicants - any male who applies gets hired, while better qualified women are turned away?

Very fair point - why don't teacher applications work the same way? To meet DEI targets why not ban all women from applying, for a year, to ensure the only candidates getting through are men??

Or what about Uni sport teams..it's often said playing for your Uni enhances a CV, which may help you get a job later, so let's apply DEI targets on selection (as currently happens with internships).

Only those that meet a demographic are allowed to try out or even turn up to demonstrate their skills (as happens with internships) e.g If there are too many middle class boys in Rugby/football teams, prevent them from showing up at trials until the teams are fully balanced with contextual boys ?

Does this make sense for education and Uni Sports?? If not why do we do it for internships?

@Shinybrightdarling Oh sure!

I think to be as fair as possible you should remove name, sex etc. But keep relevant stuff like University and work experience.

When dh does recruitment he doesn't even know what uni they went to. I don't think we should be uni blind.

It’s not just jumping on the back of what Trump’s doing. People have legitimate concerns about what’s happening in this country and we are allowed to discuss it.

A lot of consulting firms are radically chopping their grad schemes because of AI so a lot of summer schemes will also be affected. They’re not acting against white males, they just aren’t hiring as many (sometimes any) grads.

And neither should you. But doesn’t it make you wonder whether £130k is really a fair reflection of long hours and hard work in a successful corporate career?

or could it be that your brown DH hasn’t, actually, had the reward he deserved after all?

Interesting. One of my nieces failed to progress further in the recruitment process twice due to being told she was ‘too assertive’ and interrupted men at two different group exercises at law firms. She said it was the only way to get a word in. Ironically she interrupted with an ‘excuse me’ to say that it would be good to hear the views of those in the group who hadn’t yet had the chance to speak …. !

I think this is a sensible way to do it. I'd remove names, sex and religion. But keep uni and previous work experience as it's relevant to their skills and knowledge.

Congrats to her! I cannot ascertain her career journey from this MN post alone.

@OhDear111 i work for a global organisation - what makes you think we dont report our stats?

Wow i am not senior enough to have influence? I was chairperson of the D and I committee for 2 and half years and have run countless workshops for very senior leadership describing my experience and making recommendations. But thanks for your assessment @OhDear111

@HelpMeUnpickThis Just because your company doesn’t report its diversity or under represented groups stats, doesn’t mean others don’t or that they have not changed recruitment policies! You obviously work in a rear facing organisation because others like the positive optics of a varied workforce. I assume you aren’t senior enough to influence anything or get your company’s employment stats. If you do see them, do they reflect your experience globally and in the whole of the UK?

I work in Insurance - Banking Capital Markets in London - one of the most diverse cities in the UK. I am the only black senior manager in the entire department. I have only ever had 1 black graduate to manage, in all my 10 years all graduates / interns hired have been nearer 8 white males and 2 white females per intake. I think you are really referencing very incorrect information based on website pictures.

One hiring panel I was on had blank CVs, etc., only —no names, sex, religion, etc., even to the point that current workplaces were blanked out so you couldn't snoop; we picked our shortlist based on the merits presented to us in their opening CV's / letters.

The short list was four women/three men.

Im so sick of Trump politics being dragged over here. You are just stirring up trouble needlessly, OP.

This was certainly true for my son's grad scheme which was a well known bankand there was around 80 grads. There were only around 15 white men, and half women.

The sad thing was there were no Northerners, Scottish or Welsh people, and the vast majority of grads were from very privalidged backgrounds i.e average parent had two homes and they were educated at private school, a lot of family wealth and connections- relatives had jobs in similar industries.
My son was from the least well off background, divorced parents and we are renters, family problems etc. but he found all the grads- although they come from other cultural backgrounds they are very similar.

I’m interested in how much you’ve questioned your DHs (brilliant) achievements in terms of whether his outcomes really are a true reflection of his success and value? You say:

“There is no problem. DH and I are Indian. My DH has had a successful corporate career in the UK. Works very hard, works long hours and makes around £130k in a big 4 organisation.”

how would it make you feel if I told you I have a friend who earns more than £130k in a big 4, having only been there for 3 years and came from local government? And- she doesn’t even work full time, let alone long hours.

shes great but she hasn’t had a “successful corporate career” a- yet out earns him.

and that’s not even the point- these 2 people may well be completely incomparable.

My point was more that you think £130k is a just reward for a successful long and hard working career with a high paying employer, yet others don’t see that as a reflection of those things at all, but simply what they expect for rocking up everyday.

often marginalised people are so grateful their lot, so grateful to be at the table at all that they don’t realise how much more others are getting for the same thing.

It’s something that as a woman I remind myself of a lot.

@Bambamhoohoo
Thank you for answering my question.