To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

I had amazing midwives at both my kids’ births. I was so upset when the first midwife finished her shift and a new one came in. But she was also great. My second birth I was only in there 20 mins but she was also fab in that time. Maybe it depends where you are as I was in a midwife led birthing centre both times

Retired midwife here. I trained to be a nurse, then a midwife, after having two dreadful birth experiences and thought “I can do better than that”. I trained, and then worked at the same hospital where I had both my children. With the exception of a handful of midwives I found the majority to be full of the own self importance and were generally a bunch of bitches. I loved being a midwife but left after 8 years as I could no longer tolerate working alongside some of the the nastiest women alive.

Ahhh I’m torn. I nearly died in my first delivery due in large part to a CF of a midwife who couldn’t be arsed to the point of negligence but since her I have met lots who are actually great and committed. One of my favourite humans is a specialist perinatal MH midwife and she is amazing (and saved my marbles!!) I think in every profession there are bad apples and in the current system we have it is the perfect storm for MW’s to be burnt out and have lost any passion and/or compassion for the role.

I had a cat 1 c section and discharged myself early due to the lack of aftercare. I find it utterly bizarre that had I had any other type of major abdominal surgery, I’d have been encouraged to rest. We asked where my husband could find a wheelchair to take me to the toilet and we were refused one. I was told I had to walk, but my legs felt like jelly still from the spinal block and my insides literally felt like they were going to fall out of my incision. I managed to get to the toilet but was in so much pain that I collapsed. We then got told off for that too. I was due analgesia every 4hrs so pressed the bell for it. It never came, or came 3hrs after it was due. Decided to come home and rest it off there instead and it did me the world of good just being able to go at my own pace and do my own heparin injections myself.

That’s interesting. Yes, you are very vulnerable as a mother, both before and after the birth.

As an aside ( and a bit of a cheap point, I admit) with both my children I was very worried about them in their first days and got a dismissive response both times (silly, fussy, over-anxious woman etc) and both DID have problems. The first needed a lumbar puncture and was in the NICU for a week and the other was rushed in the middle of the night to Gt Ormond Street where he was given an ileostomy at 4 days old. But I’d been made to feel really stupid for worrying both times.😠

What else is she meant to base it on? And ready this many people have had similar experiences including myself!

My first was very similar to your second!

@CoffeeCantata my theory is it’s a mixture of misogyny and the autonomy going to their heads. They have a large amount of autonomy compared to nurses and other HCPs, and I think it’s made many of them very arrogant.

Also, their patients are typically very vulnerable (in a lot of pain, half naked having invasive examinations and procedures performed, scared, overwhelmed, exhausted, worried about their babies, hormonal etc) so not in a position to complain or defend themselves as other patients would, which makes for easy targets.

This is interesting and surprising. Do any HCP have any explanation for this?

When my poor old demented mum was in and out of the local hospital (not exactly a cutting-edge teaching establishment) the standard of care from staff there was really poor. We (reluctantly) had to complain - it was definitely neglect and sometimes approached abuse. Friends who work in the NHS have said - there are some areas which are the 'poor relations' in terms of morale, prestige and recruitment and geriatrics is one of them. OK, I get that to some extent. It must be depressing in many ways.

But helping to bring babies into the world!! Jeez, if you're a HCP - surely that's a wonderful role. I have 2 friends all fired up to train as midwives, and they're lovely.

What is going wrong then? Does this job attract unpleasant people or do people get worn down by the system? I thought my 2 experiences were unfortunate, but it seems from this thread that it's very common - and few midwives are on here to defend themselves, so it would be good to have an inside perspective.

I’ve never interacted with them as a patient, however, I used to work in a women’s hospital for a number of years and I have to say they were the most unpleasant group of HCPs I have ever worked with, and I’ve worked in the NHS for over 15 years and across 8 trusts in different roles.

Of course some were lovely, some were just okay, but they were so many that were rude, condescending, entitled, defensive and often lazy. More than any other profession that I’ve worked with. It’s genuinely made me afraid of being cared for by them if I do get pregnant.

I don’t relate to this. All of the midwives that helped in my labour were great. I was also under the ante natal teams at the hospital for both children and met some great midwives.

The issues I have encountered, prior to having hospital care, related to 2 midwives with very zealous pro ‘natural birth’ views who were spreading misinformation. One ran our NHS ante natal classes and insisted that pain in childbirth is caused by fear; that contractions were nothing but ‘waves of pressure’ that could be wafted away with a lavendsr scented candle. The other attempted to lie/change my medical history so that I wouldn’t need obstetric care (I had had previous heart surgery and gynaecological surgery, as well as having OC in my first pregnancy). These were not faults caused by laziness or nor caring. Quite the opposite - having a political agenda that got in the way of their decision making capabilities.

Varied but erring on not great for me. My assigned community midwife was good, recently qualified and up to date. She was ill for my last appointment and so it was covered by a colleague who told me that my baby might not have any limbs as she couldn’t feel them. Luckily I had seen them on two scans by that point but quite the thing to tell someone at 41 weeks!

Once in labour first midwife was friendly but made a dangerous decision on my care. Second one who took over was not friendly but did make the right decisions and called for a Doctor and had the neonatal team on standby. Baby ended up in the NICU and me in hospital
for 10 days. Maternity ward was absolutely chaotic, sometimes I’d have my obs taken 4 times in an hour then not at all for 24hrs. Some midwives seemed happy but clueless, some should have appreciated that a FTM on her own with a baby in the NICU might cry if you’re mean to her and one or two were clearly doing their best in trying circumstances. I rarely saw the same person twice.

NICU team were great!

I completely disagree.
I feel midwives need to be more intelligent and be better educated.
The obstetric population is becoming older and more medically complex. We are also rightful expecting very low levels of mortality and morbidity.

To understand what is going on and act appropriately needs a fairly high level of training. You’re dealing with a population with altered physiology and determining what is abnormal does need a good level of understanding.

Ive worked with midwives who couldn’t understand fairly basic blood tests or understand how common medical conditions would affect maternal physiology.

I would suggest a return to the old system of midwives being nurses first. That will never happen though because of the cost implications.

I was amazed that they let me leave with my baby given that they spent the whole of my time there speaking to me as if a I was none too bright 5 year old

Completely agree with this .

But other countries also have nurses and midwives trained to degree level and you get better care and response from them than here, e.g. Australia. I have no idea what it is but something is not right here.

I studied to become a midwife just as Covid hit. I can well believe the stories that are on here. Some midwives should never have entered a profession that involves caring. Some midwives are remarkably intelligent and entered for all the right reasons but are full of fear; the NHS is risk averse - even as a student I went through an investigation procedure and it was awful. This leads to a whole host of unnecessary (and often cascading) interventions, as I experienced myself with my DS, but I understand that the watchful waiting that midwives of the past were so expert in, doesn’t exist anymore.

This absolutely doesn’t excuse any of the care PPs on here have received, it’s a heartbreaking reflection of the state of maternity care, and the wider NHS, in this country. A lot of the brilliant midwives I met were desperate to work elsewhere, I witnessed a few crying because they KNEW that the care they were giving fell short of the minimum expected. Those that could continue day to day are often battle- hardened, they have forgotten that something that happens everyday in their world, will only happen to the woman they are caring for once/ twice.

@Callipygion you're absolutely right about the entrance expectations to a midwifery degree, I know of a few people who were refused but would have made fabulous advocates for women.

I hope any pregnant woman reading this isn’t filled with fear. Please advocate for yourself, have your birth partner know what you want and if you ever feel that the person caring for you doesn’t have your best interests at heart, ask to have someone else (and have this recorded on notes). It may not always be possible but perhaps it may make someone think twice.

Just.... wow...! 😳

2 children and every midwife I encountered were absolutely shit. And one in particular a fuckin bitch who should be nowhere near a labouring woman or babies for that matter.

I agree. Many in the "caring profession" are anything but caring. It's all just another job for them.

I think the main problem starts at the university training. Not everyone who would be a great caring nurse/midwife is able to study to a degree level. Just because you can write an excellent essay about a subject doesn’t mean you can do the hands-on work. I think a lot did the degree because they didn’t have to pay for it like other subjects, they got a bursary, they didn’t go into nursing/midwifery because they had a vocation for it and I think you need one, some of them think the actual caring their role calls for is beneath them.

I'm so sorry for your experiences. My first birth was traumatic. Nothing overtly out of the ordinary I should think, just all generally awful..
Were they good or bad midwives? or just constrained by the system and policies and the amount of women they had to look after? I don't know. I know I couldn't work within it, if it meant offering women the sort of experiences we had.

My husband did hear a consultant outside the door saying to put me on a drip to speed things up. He hadn't seen me and Idt never been under anything but midwife care. My midwife argued for more time for which I am grateful.

I decided not to do it again.

Of course. I accept we have an issue if you read my first post above the one you quoted. It's not even just maternity as i said.

I also know that some countries have vastly better care than we do. I'm just objecting to judging that by videos (what people decide to show) and not personal firsthand or secondhand experience. As some people have also judged us as having better care than we actually do because of some videos they watched.

"utterly disinterested" is also the main impression I had from midwives in both labour ward and post-natal ward. Very passive-agressive as well in their communication style.

They didn't seem to find much enjoyment in their jobs, and avoided any "complicated" patients to spend most of their time with the "easy" ones.
To me, they looked bored more than overworked, apart from a few (often the more senior midwife - not sure how they're called but they seemed to be in charge).

I didn't have that impression at all from the few nurses i saw - they definitely looked overworked and rushed, and often apologised for the delays.

2nd baby I laboured through the night being told routinely by the midwife that I wasn't progressing. At one point she came in and said if I didn't make any progress they would take away the gas and air - yes, they threatened to remove pain relief based on their judgement of my progress. I was devastated and starting to panic - looking back I realise I was in transition already. The midwife went on her 15 minute break and by the time she got back baby had arrived. The midwife and student midwife that were actually present at the birth were fantastic.