To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

Mine were also utterly shit. For my first I got told “you’re just a neurotic first time mother” (my baby was born with congenital defects that we knew about on scans before hand. The midwives refused to send the baby for any further tests despite my being told I would get them)
For my second “you weren’t contracting so we didn’t bother to fill the birthing pool up” so my 30 mins labour was spent at the end of a bed, when she returned she told me off for “pushing prematurely”. I had the baby a second later….

I was very lucky to have excellent care throughout including during birth, but I do think partly issues are arising because (for budget reasons) there is no more continuity of care. I was chatting to an older midwife and she said how the same midwife would treat you during your whole pregnancy and then be called to hospital/home to deliver and it just made the whole experience a lot more personal and the midwives a lot more invested. Such a shame

I am wondering if this is hospital specific.

I’ve given birth twice at a specific London large NHS teaching hospital that I chose for its reputation. Both times my midwives were excellent. The births had their complications but they were in total control, had excellent communication, and worked collaboratively with the doctors. They were proactive and supportive in terms of pain relief and the birth was completely led by me.

I’m wondering though if the OP would have agreed with me, because I didn’t want them massaging me and giving me sips of water. The water was my husband’s job - and basically the only one he could do because I hated being touched and absolutely did not want a massage.

I also had lovely community midwives, in particular the ones after the birth which were connected to a different trust.

I don’t think this is limited to midwives. Most front line NHS staff I’ve encountered from A&E staff to consultants are exactly the same.

Both of mine were poor, but not as poor as many of these. My mum came to visit when I was on the ward and complained that I was diabetically hypo and that my care was substandard.

The man now in charge of the entire CQC was the Chair at the NHS Leeds Trust which is now the subject of a Public Inquiry due to failure in that maternity unit during his tenure.

Another case of the great NHS failures promotion carousel.

Preserving reputations seems to be far more important than patient care.

As a pp has said , always try to have someone with you.

Two births, two amazing midwives. Though two straightforward deliveries so maybe I'm confirming your theory about them being ok if they don't need to do much! Not totally true though as they were incredibly lovely people, huge support (I was pretty scared) and explained everything well and helped me.

Health visitors on the other hand can get in the fucking bin (two of them have made me sob - one because she said my baby's name was weird and ugly and then proceeded to call him a different name she made up as she could 'say that' - he has a cultural name - and the other one because she said I was starving my baby as I refused to put him on formula as he was gaining weight (just not as fast as she wanted. He was calm, sleepy, content etc and continued to thrive on breastmilk.)

And most of the nurses I've ever met have been very dim, very lazy and actual bitches. Horrible to elderly relatives, constantly sitting eating biscuits at the nurse's station and acting like you're a huge inconvenience for even daring to talk to them.

Eurgh my first baby I was offered paracetemol and told baby was not coming for a long time. I said fine if you won't give me any help why am I here and started to leave, at which point they finally offered gas and air and examined me. Baby born 45 mins later.

Mind you I had similar in A&E recently. Doctor prescribed me paracetemol and high strength codeine. Nurse just gave me paracetemol and said, you'll be fine when i asked about the codeine. When the consultant saw me 5 hours later he was horrified and stood over the nurse until she gave me morphine.

Due to a health condition, I am admitted through a&e to hospital acute care unit, from time to time, and some of the treatment I’ve witnessed by nurses to patients is awful. I would say a large amount are thoroughly uninterested in caring for patients and prefer to stand around chatting about holidays, Netflix shows and all deciding what to order from the Chinese takeaway for their break (no joke). Patients are buzzing for help with pain, needing the loo or help in general and they completely ignore it.
Sadly it’s not just midwives, it’s the whole of the NHS. There is a culture of ambivalence and they know none of us can actually do anything about it.
Of course there are the good nurses too, I don’t wish to tar all with the same brush, but there are some out there that should be no where near a hospital.

I’ve had a lot of experience in the NHS due to chronic illness, and yes - care can be mixed in many different areas. But the attitude and disdain I received on the labour and postnatal wards genuinely shocked me. Totally unlike anything I’ve ever experienced - and I had textbook labours and deliveries, and I was a very calm and relaxed labourer. I thank my lucky stars for that because I dread to think what could have happened if I was unlucky and something went wrong whilst I was under the care of the rude, sour-faced midwives I had.

I will however say that the midwives who WERE good were bloody excellent.

Oh, just to add as well I didn't scream or cry or shout at all as I was so scared to embarrass myself or be told off so I wasn't making a fuss or anything.

And I don't buy the short staffing excuse as there's no excuse for a lack of empathy. I work with elderly residents and the second I stop empathising with them will be the second I change career. We're often short staffed but still provide dignity and care because we actually care and have their best interests in mind at all times.

My experiences were very positive. Lovely gentle empathetic person at my first birth… I wish I’d been able to have my baby on the MLU with her, but I wasn’t that well and had to move and her shift finished. The next one was nice and tried her best but was less experienced and confident so a bit less helpful to me - but that’s the difference experience often makes I think.
I had a home birth with my second and those midwives were fab. They can’t be on their A game at every moment when they’re with you for hours in the middle of the night, but they all (3 including a very lovely attentive trainee) brought so much expertise and support and had just what I needed when I needed it, despite being clearly overworked.

I think midwives and other healthcare professionals involved in births almost rely on women not feeling able or strong enough to complain as they are so exhausted so they feel they can get away with treating them terribly.

I had a midwife asking multiple times if I was sure I hadn't "just wet myself" when my waters had broken - it was obvious it was my waters. I asked for pain relief (40hr induced labour via drip as they just didn't bother with a pessary) as I'd had no pain relief at all and they said "you can have some gas and air but don't ask for anything else".

With my second, whilst trying to deliver the placenta a doctor was really harsh about me not trying hard enough to push the placenta out and they'd have to intervene if I continued to fail. It made me feel terrible and I tried so, so hard but just couldn't do it. They took me to theatre for what was supposed to be a 30 minute procedure but I was in over 2 hours. Gave me an epidural and got the placenta out. That doctor very sheepishly came in and explained the placenta had got stuck and they had to rip it away from me as it wouldn't have come out no matter what I did.

I was also sexually assaulted with my first as I expressly stated I did not consent to internal examinations unless absolutely necessary (I was told by my community midwife that good, experienced midwives/Dr's don't need to do internals). They didn't ask or even inform me they were going to do this and just did it without my consent.

I’ve given birth twice and I’d say that about 20% of the midwives I met were excellent, 20% were abysmal and the rest were ok, competent but not going above and beyond.

My first birth was very similar to the OP’s second. Ended up in labour overnight on an induction ward with a midwife who didn’t believe I was in labour, couldn’t be bothered to examine me and told me to be quiet and go to sleep so not to disturb the other patients. Then there was the one who shouted at me to stop pressing the call button when I was in advanced labour because they were having their morning meeting.

The one at my second pregnancy booking appointment wasn’t great either. For some reason their system showed I had been pregnant before but there was no record of a birth. She simply said I can see your baby has died. I said no, then she asked if I was sure. Like wtf?! I insisted that my then toddler was at home. She called a supervisor who again stated that my baby had died. I thought that was very unprofessional and triggering for someone who had actually lost a baby.

There was also the midwife who refused to look at my birth plan (after her colleague at my previous appointment told me to put one together) because ‘no one cares about these things’.

However, the midwives I met when I gave birth the second time were fantastic (different, smaller hospital). They encouraged and supported me, they actually helped settle my baby on the postnatal ward so that I could rest, made drinks for me, they were amazing.

The problem is that having bad midwives when you’re in a vulnerable position makes the whole experience a hundred times worse and can have serious consequences. I was left with PTSD after my first birth, but my second birth was actually healing.

I don’t think I had a midwife. I had a planned c-section so no labour or anything like that.

I turned up at the hospital, waited in a side room for a while and was then called through for the birth. I only spoke with the anaesthetist.

Once I’d given birth I was then put in a room with my baby for a while and was then pretty much kicked out less than 24 hours later following very minimal attention.

It was during the end of Covid though so maybe that’s not a typical arrangement.

Sadly this seems very common judging by a lot of MN threads I've been reading, and importantly, the government maternity care inquiry.

On IG I was recently recommended a post looking at 'mean girl' behaviour among US female nurses, apparently much-discussed on TikTok recently. I know the healthcare system there is different, and elements of the midwife problem here are unique to the UK. But I think it's a wider issue & have some thoughts as to why.

https://nurse.org/news/mean-girl-to-nurse-pipeline-tiktok/

These stories are so upsetting. I am so sorry for everyone who has had a bad experience. I join the chorus I’m afraid. I can still hear the cold, unfeeling Caribbean midwife I had with my first. I can still feel her fingers waggling back and forth across my vagina during the pushing stage - still don’t know why she was doing that but it was horrible - and her voice barking “Push properly!” She kept me pushing for almost two hours and it ended with forceps in theatre. And she refused to let me go on all fours or stand up. Years later I had a uterine prolapse which required surgery and I always linked it to the long pointless pushing stage.

With my second two children we paid for a private birth and doctors delivered my babies. Utterly different experiences.

When my sister had her first baby I was with her and I heard a midwife in the corridor say “we’ve got a princess in here” because my sister had asked for an epidural.

Sadly I agree. I really want another child but I don't know if I can face it again.

During my induction I bled heavily, After being dismissed repeatedly, they finally checked and said I'd be moved down to the labour ward urgently (within an hour) as an emergency. It was actually 16 hours because there were no beds. I hadn't felt my baby move for 2 days and kept begging to have additional monitoring and they acted as if I was being weird and dramatic. I felt like I was lay there waiting for my baby to die while they all laughed away.. I remember thinking that if I died right there in the bed, they'd just shrug and say "no beds, what can we do?".

I started to wonder if maybe I'd misunderstood the urgency of my situation but when I was finally moved, I was treated as if it was a serious emergency which was confusing. Eventually had an emergency c-section (which was actually a good experience with lovely staff) but baby and I had an infection so had to stay in for a week.

The post natal ward was one of the worst things I've ever experienced. One member of staff shouted at me to stop crying when I was in pain trying to get out of bed and then she turned to another patient and told her that some people have c-sections thinking it'll be the easy way out but don't realise how painful it is. (I hadn't chosen it - it was an emergency). I heard the staff bitch about me on the corridor to each other My baby screamed constantly and I'd walk around the ward at 4am sobbing and the staff would laugh and tell me it's what I'd signed up for.

The whole thing was absolute mayhem. They left a piece of plastic in his cot by accident from his swab. They forgot to give him his antibiotic eye drops for days. Someone casually told me my baby had a heart murmur and would need a scan on his heart then walked off. I had no idea what a heart murmur was and thought something must be terribly wrong.

I am not a difficult person. I'm a real passive, overly-polite people pleaser and I think this was the problem. Some of the staff were just exhausted and busy but some were cruel. I am positive that one of them genuinely enjoyed watching me in distress.

I’m sorry you had terrible experiences. I feel incredibly lucky to have had amazing midwives
Neither were simple births but they did stay with me the majority of the time.
I had a student with experienced midwife recently. After my baby was born my midwife got the clinical director in the room as soon as she thought something was amiss and were crucial to the team who saved my life shortly after. I was in high dependency and they did absolutely everything for me including getting my own room for a few days recovery. They also reassured my partner and were stars

With my first I was a very young (week after my 18th), very scared single Mum. No support from my parents or from the baby's father - 100pc alone.

Got to the hospital at 4cm in the early hours and told I would have to go home. I cried so much they agreed to let me stay on the pre natal ward where I was completely ignored for the next 18 hours. Got told to stop moaning because they'd already given me 2 paracetamols. Had my DD via high forceps after 36 hours of labour before the epidural had time to take effect. Tore and cut from one end to another.

Back on the post natal ward I told the midwife I needed a wee but my legs weren't working (this was over 30 years ago when an Epidural meant you lost all sensation in your legs for hours). She plonked me on a commode - in full view of the ward and left me to pee so much it overflowed the bowl. Then shouted at me saying I'd have to clean it up myself. One of the other Mums got the Ward Sister and there was an almighty row!

Baby No 2 was a TFMR at 25 weeks. Can't fault the labour or post natal staff. They were absolutely amazing. Took photos for us, made a beautiful footprint picture, gave us a soft shawl to wrap him in and gave us time and space to grieve.

The Community Midwives were a different kettle of fish. Two of them turned up the day after I'd been discharged, took one look at my red rimmed eyes and one joked to another "it's a bit too soon for post natal depression, we'll have to watch her ha ha ha". Plonked themselves on my sofa, told my (then) DP to make himself useful and make the tea......

And then asked me where I was hiding the baby - the one who'd died, not 24 hours previously. I only remember screaming to DP to get them out, get them out.

Day 2 so 48 hours after my baby had died, another Community Midwife turned up. First thing she said was "how's the breastfeeding going?" So she got thrown out too.

Day 3 - yet another Community Midwife arrives - "Look Dear" she says "I have been told you can be a bit difficult but we really do need to check Baby".

It was a fucking shit show. I actually walked over the road to the hospital, hunted down my (wonderful) Consultant and begged him to get it sorted out. I don't know what he did but he sent me a big bunch of flowers to my house with a little card saying how sorry he was. We held a service for my baby at the hospital chapel before his cremation and the Consultant very quietly slipped in and sat at the back. Turns out his sister had a TFMR the day before me and for the same medical reason.

Baby 3 and Baby 4 were both Elective Sections and I got out of the hospital as soon as I could - allowed 1 home visit to check me and the baby and then told them all to fuck off.

My experience with every single midwife I saw during the 7 days I was in hospital in slow labour with DD 16 years ago, were horrendous bar one. After a PPH, 4 days of coma and a hysterectomy aged 22 as a single parent, they were generally nicer. Although still fairly useless to be honest. That may be something to do with the fact that I almost died, as did DD due to their actions, that may have had something to do with it. I obviously can’t have any more children, but even if I could, I don’t think I would have been brave enough to do that again. I had horrific PPD, and still have PTSD from my experience. I feel for everyone who has had bad experiences, I only know one person who had a good experience to be honest, and that was an uncomplicated home birth.

This is why I'm having a caesarean. No guarantee it will go smoothly of course but it should be a much more controlled experience.

I'm so sorry to hear of all the trauma posters have been put through. Our maternity care in this country is shocking

Yes I’d have to agree unfortunately. One in particular was snappy with me instead of caring. I was out of my mind with pain, to the point I didn’t even remember there was the option of an epidural. She didn’t offer any pain relief, didn’t help me breath through anything, or offer support. She just got short with me instead.