Blindsided at breakfast!

I always find keeping out of other people’s marriages works for me…

It’s a bit bizarre that she used the word “defensive.” It sounds like she’s been holding in some feelings and just flew off the handle with a small provocation.
I’d be polite but distant - she isn’t a friend.

You don't seem to have much in the way of a relationship to lose with N, so instead of reorganizing your life so that you can avoid her, why don't you confront her and clear the air? Can't get worse; might get better.

Yes it's annoying when someone interrupts but it happens all the time as people want to add things to the discussion. I have known two mums in our circle who were openly rude and volatile. Both expected others to defer to them. They didn't improve so I'd be inclined to just keep a bit of a distance. Say hello but leave it at that. It's good your friend also thought her rude.

I can't understand this really. You feel drained by your other friends marriage and yet this was the time you decided to be determined to put your opinion in. Why?

Don't talk about people,this mutual friends marriage problem is not your coffee morning entertainment, your gossipy gaggle of 3 I'm sure wouldn't like something personal to you to be a topic for others. That's the bit your should be feeling guilty./ Reflecting on. The rest is group politics, N probably dislikes you and your ramping up in a discussion, any discussion, has made it bubble up into an eruption. F is weak and you will never really know who she likes, how can you she's on that fence.

When you're passionate about something and have a valid point its normal to interrupt so you dont forget thr point youre making, its part of normal conversing and people shouldn't be so uppity about it. She was rude and you sound a bit sensitive and have got a shock at her reaction, which i think is rude, not you for just voicing your opinion when youve already said you dont often feel heard, good for you for speaking up, ignore that woman!!

I definitely sympathise with you OP but tbh I’ve no time for this gossipy group!

You all sound like a bunch of nasty women. Discussing other people's marriages.

You sound like a trio of gossips. Stop discussing your friend's personal business at breakfast.

That said, N sounds like she doesn’t like you much, at the very least she tolerates you as long as you keep quiet. Quiet politeness the way forward for you. Though no doubt the next breakfast she organises will just be the two of them and they’ll be gossiping about you!

N sounds like a control type and didn’t like your strength emergi. Do not drop out of the group because of this!

Yes I completely agree with this post and sympathise with your predicament OP.

I’ve been in your situation- not exactly but very similar

My feeling, coming from experience, is that when previously passive people speak up, some other people around them
dislike it and want to keep
them in their place. It’s the same sort of thing I think when a previously fat person diets and becomes ‘normal’ weight. Cue cries like ‘anorexic’ and ‘it doesn’t suit you!’ etc etc

Ive been the same in my life, OP, regarded as passive and lacking in confidence. It’s MUCH more difficult if you’re perceived this way to stand your ground I think, and takes a lot more determination.

I was in a work place with someone like the obnoxious N - me and another bloke, John were having some teasing ‘banter’ and I said something negative to him in JEST - not personal or offensive - and my obnoxious ‘N’ then made a point of saying “John was only joking”.

Wtf??????!!!
I at one point blanked my
N’ deliberately cos I was sick of her and her response was

“Is SHE alright??!” - John immediately went to rescue her and implied I was in a mood over something else - that is - Princess N’s feelings must not by hurt!!
But the reality was I was ABSOLUTELY SICK TO THE BACK TEETH OF MY ‘N’!!

Makes me feel bitter still if I’m being honest

This sounds like a difficult dynamic.

"They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say"

Basically you are the "third wheel" in this set-up, so I'd remove myself and find new friends because these people don't sound either nice or friendly.

You need to distance yourself from this group, they aren’t your kind of people and life is too short to waste like this. N especially doesn’t respect your opinions.
You also need to work on yourself as you really shouldn’t be seeking validation in this situation. You were there. You know what N is like. You know this has been brewing for some time. You know you can’t change N. The joy of being an adult is we don’t have to spend time with who we don’t like and we don’t have to pretend to like them either.

I would just let it go. I wonder if N finds the topic sensitive or was sick of it at that point. Just lashed out at whatever target presented. If it is a one-off and N has been ok up to this point, I wouldn’t make any more issues about this. Good luck!

Some people on here must be being intentionally obtuse. It's not that strange to feel physically ill when you're unexpectedly faced with an aggressive attitude from someone who is supposed to be a friend, even if she's not a good friend. Some people react more emotionally to relatively mild confrontation than others do. People are different. Shocking, I know.

I agree with PP that it sounds like N didn't like you trying to be heard. She's used to talking over you and having you quietly take the back seat in the conversation. By speaking up, you've asserted yourself, and Ms Queen B (not 'Bee') didn't like it. I'd suspect that she has a problem with you. Either that or she was just in a particularly bitchy mood.

As for the gossip, OP says she and the other friends have been supporting the friends with the marriage problems, so it's not strange that they're invested and discussing it.

I think I'd try carrying on much as usual with N, if she behaves with civility the next time you see her. I certainly wouldn't cosy up to her, but you should be able to continue to have a normal, casual 'friendship', when the situation throws you together, unless she's off with you after this. I wouldn't back down from asserting myself in conversations or allow her to chastise me. Stand up for yourself if you feel you're in the right. Don't start arguments, of course, but don't back down from defending yourself if need be. With any luck, she'll realise you aren't having any of it and back off.

I get it OP, in some friendship groups you have to interrupt a bit to get a word in edgeways at all. And her reaction sounds as though she was just waiting to have a go. Like a lot of posters on here.

I’d feel a bit freed by it though, gloves are off, you don’t need to pretend you like her now.

Honestly? I’m not trying to “bully” you, but I do genuinely think the way you describe this interaction is hyperbolic. You speak as if something significant like a crime has occurred. With respect, you may benefit from seeking counselling; not over this incident per se, but over your reaction to it. The childhood issues you mentioned, likely plays into how you digest things and how you interact with people. You admit you’re socially awkward a perhaps there’s things you can explore to improve your social skills and feel more comfortable.

Personally, I have a similar dynamic with one of my friend’s friends as you do with “N”. I notice it but I honestly don’t care enough to engage with it. I keep enough of a distance from her to not have to deal with her. Ie I wouldn’t do what you did, and discuss strong views I have with her, or my views on other people’s marriages, because I don’t see her as a friend. I am bland/clinical around her instead..

Ultimately from what it sounds like your mutual friend isn’t going to stop inviting her to things. So either you disengage with this group of people, or you find a way to rise above it. Given what you have described, it’s unlikely you’re going to get an apology. I mean, you admit you are drained/frustrated about the marriage situation and you have passionate views about it, you very well may have come across as defensive and over invested when you kept insisting on raising your point. I mean, the behaviour you describe of interrupting her, interjecting your opinion, persevered in giving your opinion, continued making your point etc could be described as poor social etiquette.

No, it’s obvious she doesn’t mean ‘other people’s marriages.’ She explained she means men behaving in a certain way. I think a lot of people commenting here sound like the aggressive friend.

It's not N's place to jump in and police you. Who does she think she is?

F is probably trying to appease you both, as you were admittedly a little rude yourself.

I doubt it will work to confront N about her telling you off, as you would need F's support, which she won't. It will also cause a rift in the whole friendship group, which you will be blamed for (this is the way with people who are quiet and don't speak up - we're always blamed and treated as outrageous when we finally speak).

In future, just be cordial when you have to interact but avoid N as much as you reasonably can without making it obvious. Try grey rocking, which is a way of responding politely and neutrally without giving anything at all for them to react to. Also try to strengthen your ties and bond with all the other friends as much as possible - do small favours for them and meet them one on one. Then if N tries to turn on you or becomes unbearable, you will be in a stronger position.

I’ve had that happen to me, @Newname699032 - by my own family and when I wasn’t interrupting.
I get the distinct impression that whether or not you interrupted, this person would have bitten your head off.

It IS humiliating, and I think they enjoy humiliating you - or anybody they don’t like or find inferior.

Just stay far away from folks like that.

It sounds like a nest of vipers (discussing other people's marriages) so not surprised someone got bitten. I wonder how the other women whose marriages were being discussed would feel about it if they knew? There's a mean girls vibe to the group.

Maybe find new and much less gossipy friends to hang out with.

Blimey breakfast is for quietly drinking coffee and trying to wake up not all this drama

Would you now.

I wouldn't be descending into the dust of the arena and being more assertive with N. In fact, you should let future statements simply wash over you. You will never convince somebody who is as opinionated as N seems to be. You will only get a reputation as the difficult one. The late Queen's comment that recollections may vary or, in your case, opinions may vary would be my approach as well as avoiding her as much as possible without being obvious about it. By the way, you will never convince a woman after a certain age who consistently picks dud men to change her approach - she may agree intellectually with you about the dudness of the men - but she will keep picking the duds. I mean I got over men with commitment issues after one relationship when I discovered he really did mean not to get married or at least not to me. One of my friends was lovely but she kept picking losers - she ended up financially ruined thanks to the last one.

I’ve been in a very similar situation with two other women who’d known each other 20 longer and were really close. It’s not an easy dynamic to describe if you’ve not been the crowded third person in the group. I took a big step back personally, I don’t think you’re BU at all in feeling gut punched and don’t think being extremely upset is irrational at all here. See people you feel comfortable with and time to yourself. Sod them until they contact you.