Blindsided at breakfast!

I agree with this post in particular the first paragraph

I meant to quote a post above that said you seem like the third wheel in this friendship group OP. I’ve been in this situation so I empathise entirely.

I felt like an outsider in m my old group of school friends cos I’d left the group, come back etc.

I felt talked over and not heard/respected so I completely get how you’re feeling OP. I personally felt a sense of relief when I left the group. But the thing is - some of the more ‘Queen Bee’ types in the group were then at Xmas time sending cards saying ‘we must meet up for a drink’. But my thoughts were - but why didn’t you respect me more when I was actually in the group then? !!!

Let it go this time. Maybe reflect on your strong emotional reaction but if N does it again you need to address it with them.

Maybe you interrupt more than you think you do and today the other person had just had enough of it and finally snapped.
Talking and gossiping about other people’s marriages isn’t so nice either tbh.

sounds all very dramatic from you and maybe some time away from these people is what’s needed. Often these mums groups can be a funny dynamic and I stepped away from all of them eventually due to this sort of thing

So, today the topic of one of our mutual friends marriage came up.

Really, this all sounds most unpleasant - three of you chewing over a friend's marriage at breakfast. You say you're supporting the friends who have marital issues - it isn't very supportive to discuss someone's marriage behind their back.

Your friend's comment about your interruption sounds blunt and aggressive, but that's what happens in this kind of salacious dynamic - everyone desperate to shove their oar in - it's not the kind of conversation where people are gentle and considerate.

I would suggest a basic personal rule of not talking about other people behind their backs other than brief, factual mentions.

But that’s your stuff, as you said yourself.

It all sounds quite toxic. I think you should have let F finish speaking and not interrupted her but N was wrong to speak the way she did.
You seem to have had an over reaction to the criticism - ie feeling like you’d been punched. It may help to go and reflect on why someone behaving this rude manner has had such a profound effect on you. Maybe some CBT is in order to develop some coping strategies and build resilience?

Yes reading this post - I wonder if you’ve been like I have in the past OP - you know you’ve got a history of being unheard and the passive or ‘quiet’ one so you sort of want to prove a point. I’ve done this and it doesn’t end well. When I genuinely feel better about myself I don’t care how I’m being ‘seen’ by others - if this makes sense and will feel happy being quiet

F should have said to N at the time it was fine

Or perhaps she was just being kind to your feelings by saying you didn’t interrupt her. If by your own admission you interrupted regularly, and you are more likely to downplay your own actions to make yourself look better, then it sounds like you did interrupt a lot, to the point someone else had to tell you to stop.

You shouldn’t have been shouted at like that (if you were actually shouted at, that is), but you were in the wrong.

Surely interrupting someone is rude & you should wait for them to finish and then make your point? Interrupting someone suggests your opinion is more important than theirs?

If F is a people pleaser then N may have pulled you up in it because she knew F wouldn’t. I also wouldn’t read too much into F being on your ‘side’; there is a fair chance she would have sent a similar message to N if she is very conflict averse.

I have a friend like you.

she earnestly thinks that she’s the patient, empathetic one who is hard done by because we don't pay her theories and conversational black holes enough attention.

she is a chronic interrupter, talks over people, becomes “passionate” to the point of rudeness and occasionally gets pulled up.

she has many great qualities but sitting round a breakfast table with her talking about sensitive matters is not where she shines.

and whilst occasionally I will say “let x finish” or similar I’m also guilty of brushing over it after the event and saying “ yes x was very upset, you were fine”. Because I’m not her therapist and don’t have hours to unpick her feelings about why she’s not unreasonable.

I feel my voice is often unheard (have felt like this my entire life so I'm fully aware that that is my 'stuff'). They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say.

This isn't a right or wrong situation, this is a take a leaf out of her book situation. N does something much better than you do, which you need to learn.

Next time you feel you are being interrupted, or not listened to, interject, say so, and carry on with what you were saying. Yes, it will feel blunt, and rude, to you, but you won't have to do it often - either they will learn to treat you with respect, or the friendships will end.

And yes, I agree that I wish F had spoken up too at the time. That stings. And she is absolutely a people pleaser. Lovely, but will always stay neutral in fear of upsetting the applecart.

Well, yes, perhaps, but she wouldn't need to if you spoke up for yourself, and you don't speak up for yourself, which makes you a people pleaser too. Not sure why it's F's job to protect boundaries around you when you don't do it yourself. I'm sure she has enough going on in her own life, without taking on yours too.

Which sounds like it might be something else to learn from your friends, if you are feeling drained by supporting others, yet not supporting yourself in basic everyday ways. Boundaries. Put your own oxygen mask on first, etc.

Are you sure that F wasn’t saying this out of awkwardness/ to appease you?

later you say: “i wish F had spoken up too at the time. That stings. And she is absolutely a people pleaser. Lovely, but will always stay neutral in fear of upsetting the applecart.”

But you can still be heard without interrupting which you said in your OP you did. Maybe this is something you need to work on - I know it has been for me. You feel passionate about a point and want to jump in. But let the person finish and them make your point.

I used to think gossiping was advising/being interested / caring -now I recognise it for gossiping and don’t do it, and don’t miss it.

You and N just don't like each other and wouldn't get together if it wasn't for the friendship dynamics.

F is probably the kind who just hates conflict and will say anything to appease situations.

If it isn't for your kids, none of you who really get together. In such circumstances? I would avoid talking about any controversial or passionate matters and stick to the weather like conversations.

Oh, and all this focus on us talking about other marriages. Yeah, that can get messy but we were talking about a mutual friend going through a very tough time with her husband. Naturally going to come up.

Amongst a group of gossipy unpleasant people…. Yes it will “naturally”. One up

F text me afterwards to say that she was shocked by the whole thing and it was all completely uncalled for by N.

F didn’t actually say this at the time did she?
and I’d be curious about what she actually text you

I imagine (just from your response on this thread if nothing else !) that N was bang on the money.

This

It sounds like N has form for being verbally dominant, she has pulled you up on her own habit, which is often the way ironically.
Blind to our own faults and super critical of others
F is a people pleaser, probably tells N you were rude but you that you weren't.

You feel unheard so you jump in rather than be calm and assertive and it's bitten you.
Work on your communication skills

Personally I would give these two a swerve, it's doesnt sound like a mutually respectful, supportive friendship.
You find her critical and dominant
Gossiping about others marriages isn't very nice in general
Forget who is right/ wrong here
It's not for you ...

Agree. And maybe stop talking so much about other people's marriages behind their back.

I would say to N, Do you have a problem with me? If so, get it out now. You need to cut her down at the knees. We have a woman like this at our WI, she is ignorant and only her opinion counts. My answers to her are No, thank you. I'm fine, No. And so it goes, She finally has got the message and leaves me alone. Try disagreeing with N and say 'I don't agree with you', and make sure that your point of view is validly backed up. If she challenges you, say: We all have our own opinions which must be respected. Just keep repeating it. Alternatively, drop her. When you get to my age you just drop people who don't suit. I even ignore them now. They are just not worth it.

You say you were at breakfast with the kids, were they at the table while you were dissecting other peoples marriages?

How do you think your mutual friend would feel to know not only was she the subject of your discussions but that it got so het up, it caused bad feeling amongst you?

It's all very Jane Austen. Sitting around gossiping about other people, turning on each other and now everyone's "shaken up". Did nobody just want a nice quiet breakfast? Stop spending time with each other. It sounds draining.

If someone calls you defensive, they know they were attacking you.

It's better not to protest "not defensive" but to point out they're the one who attacked. (Or to counter-attack, but that's for a different thread!)