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Schools admission criteria......

715 replies

LookingforMaryPoppins · 18/10/2025 23:01

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

OP posts:
LivingTheDreamish · 19/10/2025 04:45

Yes surely the number of children getting in based on being in care/on pupil premium will be a small percentage of the total number of places. None of us can know for sure of course, but it does sound like you are panicking unnecessarily.

spoonbillstretford · 19/10/2025 04:16

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:18

no, I don't .... I think all children should have the opportunity of a decent education.

In a selective system so don't understand why children from normal families should be the lowest priority and the most likely to be deprived of decent schooling because they happen to have parents who work.

There will not be likely any or many who are pupil premium or in care who actually pass.

And many families have one child who is less academic than the other and who will not pass the 11+ as we did.

I'd have loved to have had a good comprehensive nearby who could meet the needs of both DDs. What we had was an excellent grammar school which was great for DD1 and non-selective schools who are ridiculous, draconian and one size fits all who are failing everyone.

Glowingup · 19/10/2025 04:15

UnderTheDeepBlueSea · 19/10/2025 04:03

I imagine PP or state care children do not have the opportunity to recieve hundreds of pounds worth of tutoring for the 11+ like middle class children have.

Precisely. I don’t know of any child who has got in to a grammar school without tutoring (or the parent tutoring). Our local grammar school has fewer than 0.5% of students eligible for FSM. Probably similar with care experienced children. I doubt the OP grasps how out of reach grammar school is for anyone who is disadvantaged. It really is unfair and I say that as someone whose child has just passed.

Also at ours they removed the SPAG section for anyone with dyslexia, understandably so, but it’s not quite the incredible feat that the OP makes it out to be.

Oh and none of the grammars near us make any mention of siblings on their admission criteria. Which anyone with half a brain can work out why, given that it’s selective.

OP, why don’t you move to a better catchment area?

JollyCyanCat · 19/10/2025 04:09

I had sympathy until you started talking about how the other families aren’t ‘normal’ or hardworking. Students in that position will always have to work harder to achieve against the odds. Children from ‘normal hardworking’ families already have a much greater chance of succeeding in life. I think you need to rethink your attitude.

ShrimpyMcNeat · 19/10/2025 04:06

You're angry that children in care are being given first dibs entry.

Seriously op. Yabu and unpleasant. You're totally blinded by your own privelege and entitlement.

UnderTheDeepBlueSea · 19/10/2025 04:03

I imagine PP or state care children do not have the opportunity to recieve hundreds of pounds worth of tutoring for the 11+ like middle class children have.

Glowingup · 19/10/2025 03:59

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:05

her sister did however the criteria as changed - any child that isn't in care or pupil premium is on a back foot. If the non selective alternative were decent it wouldn't feel so unfair however it's a school where less that 20% of children come out with a pass in Maths and English! Why should families that work hard and value education end up with their children being the least likely to get a decent school. 🤷‍♂️

Get a fucking grip of yourself. How many children in care do you think has someone who gives enough of a shit about them or has the means to put them through the tutoring that you need to pass the 11+? I’m not sure you understand how disadvantaged these children already are in life and what a massive difference going to a grammar school will make to them, yet you want your middle class DD to get priority over them. Why should she get priority because she has a sibling? It’s a selective school ffs I have never heard of any of them prioritising those with siblings as it literally would give an advantage to those whose brother or sister was clever enough to get in and now the younger one gets priority. Not how it works.

Honestly, the entitlement.

Dontsparethehorses · 19/10/2025 03:59

I don’t think you should be overly concerned that she won’t get a place just because of pupil premium being in the admissions criteria.

less and less families are eligible for pupil premium because of how the benefits system has changed. This is the entitlement to free school meals which is the main reason children are considered pupil premium/ disadvantaged:
Universal Credit (with an annual household income of £7,400 or less after tax), Income Support, or income-based Jobseeker's Allowance.

these children being prioritised for grammar schools, when historically they wouldn’t have, is to try and break cycles of poverty and is absolutely about equity in society. Equity doesn’t always mean treating everyone the same

Schools admission criteria......
NoArmaniNoPunani · 19/10/2025 03:47

I thought all schools gave priority to children in care. I've looked at the admissions criteria for all my local schools and it's often only 1 or 2 children getting places based on being in care. Find the sheet with the actual numbers. For the school my son wants, most children are accepted under category 8 on the list.

HelenaWaiting · 19/10/2025 03:43

All candidates will have to have passed the 11 plus. When you're looking at the number of children in care - usually a small percentage of the population of any school - you're talking about a very small number. I can't speak similarly re children with pupil premium because I don't know the area, but I seriously doubt that all the places will be taken by children from these two groups. It doesn't sound like you live a long way from the school. You may be catastrophising, but you have possible grounds for appeal if she doesn't get in, in respect of her dyslexia.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:41

Readyforslippers · 19/10/2025 03:26

Pupil premium does not necessarily mean a child had parents that don't work.

Also doesn't mean they are disadvantaged....

OP posts:
LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:40

Fifty50Fifty · 18/10/2025 23:17

Do you mean that passing the 11+ is a pre-condition to all those criteria, and then in that order?

yes

OP posts:
Readyforslippers · 19/10/2025 03:26

Pupil premium does not necessarily mean a child had parents that don't work.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:18

NerrSnerr · 18/10/2025 23:09

If she passed the 11+ and her sister got in on distance what’s the problem?

Also, do you think it’s fair that all the other children who don’t get into grammar have to go to the other school?

no, I don't .... I think all children should have the opportunity of a decent education.

In a selective system so don't understand why children from normal families should be the lowest priority and the most likely to be deprived of decent schooling because they happen to have parents who work.

OP posts:
Readyforslippers · 19/10/2025 03:17

The idea of that criteria is not to give children in care or pp an advantage, but to put them on an equal footing as it will generally be harder for them to achieve the results needed to pass. It is designed to make it fairer, even if it doesn't feel that way.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:14

Lemoncanine · 18/10/2025 23:05

It’s not unfair - she is in exactly the same situation as her sister before her. I can see it’s worrying, but that doesn’t make it unfair…

not unfair that hardworking families are lowest priority?

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LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:11

Littletreefrog · 18/10/2025 23:04

But she passed the 11 plus so she is in category 1 isn't she? And her sister presumably got in on passing and distance. Have you moved?

No, we live in the same place. The school is a 12 min train ride away..... the difference is the admission criteria meaning that any child that is not in care / pupil premium is bottom of the pile.

OP posts:
ForeverHopeful3 · 19/10/2025 03:10

I feel like if you have a sibling already attending the school, then the distance thing shouldn't apply if the academics are there. Can you make an appeal to their decision if your daughter doesn't get in? Or can you send a letter with her application asking them to overlook distance since your other daughter was admitted due to exterminating circumstances that covid caused?

Otherwise, I would pull both girls out if older sibling was okay with it and put them in a different school together. Or, they attend different schools altogether if older wants to stay where she is. Life isn't fair and this is a good learning lesson.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:09

MyOlivePanda · 18/10/2025 23:03

Won’t she have the same chance of getting in as her sister did?

Not with the change in admission criteria.

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LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:08

LIZS · 18/10/2025 23:03

Presumably her sister got in on distance before her, or have you moved since? Grammars often don’t use sibling criteria.

No, we live in the same place.

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LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:07

Bufftailed · 18/10/2025 23:04

Is it fair on anyone going to a sink school?

No! 100% not however with the addition of VAT on independent school fees any choice has been removed for the majority.

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LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 03:05

LIZS · 18/10/2025 23:03

Presumably her sister got in on distance before her, or have you moved since? Grammars often don’t use sibling criteria.

her sister did however the criteria as changed - any child that isn't in care or pupil premium is on a back foot. If the non selective alternative were decent it wouldn't feel so unfair however it's a school where less that 20% of children come out with a pass in Maths and English! Why should families that work hard and value education end up with their children being the least likely to get a decent school. 🤷‍♂️

OP posts:
LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 02:59

Fifty50Fifty · 18/10/2025 23:17

Do you mean that passing the 11+ is a pre-condition to all those criteria, and then in that order?

Yes

OP posts:
LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 02:58

Shutuptrevor · 18/10/2025 23:03

I’m confused. If she passed then she’s surely in Category 1?

I don’t think you can be that surprised that a selective entry school… selects?

no she isn't category one, any child in care or pupil premium comes ahead of her.....

OP posts:
LookingforMaryPoppins · 19/10/2025 02:56

MyOlivePanda · 18/10/2025 23:03

Won’t she have the same chance of getting in as her sister did?

In hindsite I suspect her sister benefited from covid - cosequence being the catchment for non children in care / pupil premium widened.

OP posts: