Schools admission criteria......

I have taught in a grammar. Yes we did have a lower points entry requirement for children in care and PP how we the reality is have very few students who are because as another poster said, those children do not apply.

This comment is truly awful. I would have been a PP kid back in the day (I was in care at some points, poverty etc) but I was intelligent. My school did work with primaries with high numbers of PP kids so could try and offer an education to clever pupils who didn’t have “hard working” parents - which translates to “can afford a tutor”.

OP, you seen very judgemental.

Right, so people are convinced that it is a matter of fairness that children from homes which are largely workless should have a better chance of getting into schools that can offer an advantage to bright students?

But if your parents just tip over that very low threshold and obviously don't have £2k going spare, managed to get through the 11+ like their fellow pupil premium counterpart anyway, then they should just chalk up the priority changes to life being unfair and accept that they were always privileged in the first place?

Okay 🤷🏼‍♀️

The whole school system is unfair and everyone should be entitled to a good education. However, the assumption that a child who is in care or pupil premium is not from a hardworking family is also unfair.

Congratulations to your daughters on passing the 11+
Clearly, academic excellence runs in the family!
Next challenge: boosting social awareness and emotional intelligence.
Onwards and upwards!

You don’t even know whether your second DD has got into the school yet. You’re complaining about a perceived injustice before it’s even happened. As previous posters have said, there will unfortunately be much lower numbers of PP and LAC passing the 11+ and standing in your DD’s way. Why didn’t you wait and see, and start a thread about it if she didn’t get in? Nothing has actually happened yet.

Just out if interest, as I don’t think I read this in any of your posts, did either of your DD’s have tutoring for the 11+?

Also, hard agree with the previous poster who said the local “sink school” wouldn’t be so shit if the gramma school didn’t exist.

No but anyone who can drop about two grand for the tutoring needed to get into 11+ is very likely to be middle class.
Basically for grammar school it’s all about tutoring. Anyone whose parents can’t afford it is disadvantaged, whether or not they would hypothetically get priority due to pupil premium. Most of the ones with pupil premium probably aren’t even going to be put in for the test in the first place.

How many pupil premium kids do you think there are whose parents either value education enough to send them to a grammar school* or have the funds for tutoring to pass the admissions assessments? How many kids in care do you think there are, who aren't dealing with a boatload of trauma and other shit that they are able to attain the required standard to get in? You're looking at a handful of children max. if that, Per intake.

*This isn't judgmental btw. I was a pupil premium kid although my parents wouldn't actually complete any paperwork so I never benefitted from the PP advantages. I also sat exams for a selective independent school, arranged by my primary school, and was offered a full scholarship, but my parents wouldn't let me go on the basis that they couldn't afford the train fare to get me there and back - whilst continuing to smoke and drink daily. Education wasn't a priority for them, other than when they wanted to boast about my academic achievements 🤨

And we aren't necessarily talking about parents who are highly motivated. To tip over pupil premium you could have a single parent who works three, five hour shifts a week.

Enlighten me.

I grew up on the breadline where there was no money left over at the end of the month for extras but I still had a roof over my head and three decent meals a day, and I watched my parents strong work ethic. All of that goes a long way to fostering a good education.

I imagine many PP children are living off low nutritional value food or food from the food bank and residing in poor quality accommodation.

I think you are so invested on your idea of how privilege works that you cannot see what is plainly obvious.

Like it or not schools’ governing bodies are free to write their admissions criteria, and change them.

They have to follow some legal guidelines ie cared for children, SEN children etc

Distance criteria are specified. In the cases of schools close to me it’s as the crow flies.

I’d advise any parent of a y4 child to really study the published criteria and again in y5 and 6.

Why so early - Church attendance/membership criteria can ask for a lengthy record of attendance.
This is the section open to discrepancies. Some Churches will be stricter than others/interpret their part in acknowledging attendance differently.

No. Again. By having parents that value education and have, presumably, spent time and effort supporting them. Who have involved parents. Who CAN afford tutoring. Very few children pass the 11+ without tutoring. I'm not sure you understand how privilege works.

I live in an area with an entirely comprehensive school system, fwiw. I can still see how this progress has perverse effects on children who are wedged between nice ideas and unfair outcomes.

OPs gone real quiet since their reality check 😂

It's amazing that most MNers who live in Grammar school areas think grammar schools are a fantastic idea until their DC fails to get a place. Then suddenly the system is unfair.

They are advantaged by not having enough money for tutoring and by being pushed down the school admissions criteria to make way for children whose parent spend more time at home?

No, they are being put on a level footing. Hardly any pupil premium children will pass without tutoring, the tests are designed that way.

Pupil Premium last 6 years under the 'Ever 6', this is because such children are found to have suffered an ongoing disadvantage, which isn't fair or right. The strong likelihood is that in the op's case this will have no impact at all.

No. They are already advantaged by the exact things you mention. That's the point.

Aren't they all hardworking families?

You sound like those private school parents bleating on about how unfair university contextual offers are because it ever so slightly reduces the massive advantage their kids have had for years. How many kids in care and under pupil premium do you think are going to be hoovering up these grammar school places? Hardly any.

So children of parents who work hard but carry their own overheads, leaving them without enough disposable income to afford tutoring, are not being disadvantaged by these changes?

Or where there is a family member with serious health issues or disabilities which make it impossible for the parent to work. In spite of the misinformation on social media, these cases do exist, and it's right for the children in such families to get a bit of extra support.

You need to read more deeply into it.

In any given school there are very few numbers of lac (looked after children, the new name for children in care)

it’s been standard for lac children to be category 1 for admissions in state schools for well over a decade.

in my last secondary of 2000 kids we had between 10-13 lac children at any given time.

children in care are not going to fill a year group or anything like it, and in addition they have usually had hugely traumatic early years. I don’t begrudge them anything and neither should you.