Schools admission criteria......

If I were, which I wasn't but let's play that game, then these parents on less that £7399 would only be marginally more workshy and useless than those on £7401, with all the same disadvantages that you laid out.

The point, my point, was these cliff edge points that attempt to achieve equity often only achieve the gloss of progress can be achieved at the expense of those who only just surpass the threshold. But knock yourself out, enjoy your righteousness.

@MoosesareREAL There are different types of PP, you are thinking of the military service aspect, but the majority are eligible because they are eligible / or have been eligible in the past 6 years for means tested Free School Meals. Some schools may have one child in that category and for some it could be half (or more) of their cohort.

I can't believe you have come here with a 'poor me' attitude. The number one factor for any child in getting in is passing the 11+. It is statistically far harder for a pupil premium child to pass the 11+ because they are disadvantaged. There will be a far fewer number of children living in care.

The fact you are blaming kids from this category for potentially taking a place from your child is disgusting. A child in these positions is actually far less likely to even apply for the school let alone get in. If your daughter doesn't get a place it won't be their fault at all, it'll be yours for not living close enough to the school. You're awful.

Our grammar admission is a PAN of 200 with over 700 applications for these spaces.

This is their criteria;

1. pupils in EHCP or care
2. 22 closest to school (no test required)
3. sibling (no test)
4. musical aptitude (separate music tests)
5. up to 65 academic ability (weird ranking and eligibility systems in place) in eligible areas...
6. children of staff
7. closest to school

Out of 200 places.

Education, Health And Care (EHC) Plan - 9

Children looked after - 5

22 closest to school - 22

Sibling - 66

multiple birth- 2

Music - 10

Academic - 65

Children of Staff - 17

Any other applicant - 4

You are being ridiculous. Children qualifying for PP are usually massively under represented at Grammar schools - stating the obvious children on PP tend to come from families without spare funds for tutoring that seems rife these days.

LAC & PP will make up a tiny number of acceptances. So your DD is on distance same as almost all the other candidates.

There will also be loads of other children at the non-grammar who also just missed out. When you slice away top set children, the average results in the remaining schools are bound to be lower, but that doesn't automatically mean your child can't do well.

I’ve just checked are looked after dc have had priority by law since 1998 so nothing has changed between your dc op.

So in essence, this is a thread complaining about pupils in care / on pupil premium being prioritised for admission. Nice one.

I too have found it a bit strange that pupils who are "looked after" always seem to be prioritized

My husband is teaching at a grammar school. Imagine less than 5 pupils admitted from foster care/low income and it's not a small school.

My husband work voluntary for a programme with free tutoring for children in care and low income households. So few of them have a reel chance in life and doing well in education. Many are moved around placements frequently and change school often.
Foster parents are of couse not required to have an academic level to tutor or spend own money on it. Foster children don't come with money for tutoring.

it's mostly a thing for well educated or high earning families to pass +11 for grammar schools. So don't envy a few children higher up the list than your own.

But all schools have to give priority to PP/FSM and LAC children? I'm not sure if it's different in grammars, but you'll need to remember that the school is literally paid by the DfE to assist these students and most schools can't function without that funding. LAC children also often move locations, so they can't really be expected to adhere to proximity rules.

Some stats for you: depending on the area, there are usually less than 2 LAC children per year group and around 30% PP/FSM. This may be much lower if they're required to pass the 11+, as disadvantaged students typically have lower educational outcomes (which is awful, unfair, and the reason it's a priority to support these students in most schools).

Our (not so) local grammar has the same admissions criteria - siblings don't even come into it - they serve their local area first.

If she doesn't get in (she might actually get in?) you can always waitlist and hope that your daughter will get in, on appeal - they may rank siblings higher at that point.

I do wonder if @LookingforMaryPoppins has ever really brushed up against poverty before and therefore she genuinely feels that prioritising DC who have been dealt a tough hand in life is unfair?

I know a few parents like this. They have always lived in a naice Grammar school area. Their DC have all gone to the naice village school. Quite a few of the mums haven't worked since having DC. They are in this afffluent bubble and genuinely don't have a clue how bad the world is out there.
I grew up in one of the poorest areas in UK, poverty and generational ineptitude were everywhere. Those who did work to try to better themselves and their family - via education & career prospects - just had so many barriers to overcome compared to MC families in affluent areas.

Thank you. Although I truly believe that me and my husband are the lucky ones to have found them. My kids aren't perfect, but neither are we and they just make me so proud. I can't begin to understand what they have been through, but we make sure they know everyday that we love them.

Unless you’re in a military town, there’s not gonna be that many kids in care/ eligible for pupil premium….

Very few kids go to grammar based on being in care or pupil premium. If they manage it after they’re states in life they more than deserve it, but it’s likely none are in care and only a handful are pp.

How many miles is it door to door from your home to the school?

Could you upload the oversubscription criteria as I would anticipate the Pupil Premium criteria is likely to be linked to distance or living in a disadvantaged postcode (IDACI) and also limited in number, e.g. there was an article in the press this week about a high performing grammar which has changed its criteria this year to prioritise up to 15 pupils / 10% of the Yr. 7 cohort in this way, but that still leaves 85% plus of places for other candidates. When I checked the 2025 GCSE performance tables, published online, that particular school had not one child (0%) eligible for FSM / PP in the Yr. 11 cohort.

Really? That's what PP is for, to help make up for the disadvantage of living in poverty.

This is very true. Having recently looked at Bucks grammers vs non grammers, the difference in facilities is huge. I asked the question of how the facilitaties be so much better when they get the sane amount of money from government per pupil than the non grammer. The answer when speaking to a governor was very revealing
'We actually get less from the government than non grammer as we don't have as many children with pupil premium so don't get some of the associated top ups. We ask parents for a voluntary donation of £500 per child per term. The average donation last year was around £2500 per year per girl'

I understand you better now and I’m confident - sadly - that your worries are unfounded.

do you really think that loads of kids in care or in receipt of PP pass the test??? They absolutely DON’T, that’s why those who do absolutely deserve to skip the distance criteria. My kids applied for a school where the test had a different pass mark for PP kids for precisely that reason. There still weren’t many/enough PP kids… This sort of ‘help’ is, as others have said, all about trying to remove structural inequity.

look up the % of PP kids at the school. I’d be astonished if this new criterion has made a substantial difference to who attends.

In care has been the priority for 20+ years, pupil premium was a criteria at my DCs school 15 years ago. Sibling was number 3

Looked after children will have been top on the list of criteria when your older child got in too, it’s been the case that looked after children, plus former LAC, are a priority group for admissions since 2012 and this is the case in all schools. LAC (and children with a school named on an EHCP) always top the list and do so in every school.

Beyond that the school get to choose the order of priority for their admissions criteria. It’s totally reasonable for them to place students on pupil premium at the top, pupils identified as receiving pupil premium are statistically at a disadvantage compared to children from other backgrounds. They are already disadvantaged so will likely do worse at the ‘sink school’ than your daughter so if they’re capable of passing the 11+ why shouldn’t they have an opportunity to go to the school, even if their families can’t afford to move closer to the school? Why do you think distance would be a fairer way to admit families than the current criteria? That means you advantage families who can afford to buy nearby or move closer instead of those who are identified as part of a disadvantaged group but it doesn’t level the playing field or make it fair if it’s the only good school in the area.

Anyway, realistically because children receiving pupil premium are at an educational disadvantage compared to those who aren’t I imagine the actual numbers of children on pupil premium are low due to the selective criteria of passing the 11+ being highest. I would be surprised if there are huge numbers of children eligible for pupil premium in the school, it’s likely the reason they are high up
on the admissions criteria is because the school has recognised it has a lower than average number of children from this demographic and is wanting to boost its numbers to make the school more inclusive and representative of other schools. Maybe look at the published data for the school and look at how their numbers of children receiving pupil premium compared to the local average and the numbers at other schools. You might find they only admit a tiny percentage of pupil premium eligible pupils anyway and you might be getting your knickers in a twist and frothing over nothing.

in my experience the number of children in care and pupil premium who actually get in is small. I don’t think it will materially impact your daughter’s chance. You can check the actual stats to confirm too.

This is such a bullshit response. It just shows a complete lack of understanding on why some children need to be prioritised. Firstly all children entering the school need to pass the 11+. How many children in care or on pupil premium do you think this accounts for? Google says something like 6% of all applications.
Given grammar schools are state funded why shouldn't there be a diverse representation from all backgrounds across the school? Why should we be funding schools for specifically for white middle class families?
I find your disregard for these kids to gain an advantage for your own daughter pretty horrifying,

if the criteria has changed though there would have to be admissions consulted

@LookingforMaryPoppins has it changed or has sibling never been included

the sibling rule for grammar is actually quite unfair given it is selecting you on your circumstances and abilities not that of yourself

anyway checked DD and it is looked after, 85 top scores, 35 pupil premium scores 125 catchment scores

You sound awful.

As you are implying that these parents are feckless and workshy, surely it would be an incredible achievement for their disadvanted children to pass the 11 plus without tutoring (because obviously they wouldn't be able to afford it) and they would definitely deserve a place. I doubt that they would have access to books and help with their homework. Surely these would be the sort of very bright but disadvantaged children that grammar schools were originally set up to help?